Solved! Go to Solution.
Solved by Martin__Schmid. Go to Solution.
To start, your definition of a "single-phase" system may differ from that of the American definition, which Revit follows. I will quote from >this< other thread:
sparkie001 wrote:
"In the US, with two hots 'A' and 'B' and a Neutral 'N' is considered "single-phase":
1 - Some say it's to differentiate it from old 2-phase systems where the phase angles were 90 degrees apart
2 - Because you only get one sine waveform when you put an oscilloscope across hot-hot or hot-neutral.
3 - Because you can only connect single-phase loads to it.
If you use a search engine you'll get another 100 answers."
Given that, it does not appear to be technically possible to create a fluent truly "single-phase" (AØ only) in Revit at this time (as of Revit 2014). Take a peek at the attached pdf. This is a quickly hashed-together work-around that requires quite a bit of labor to set up and then some more to maintain it. Let me know if what is shown in the pdf file is satisfactory, and that I am not completely misunderstanding this issue. If it is and you think it would be worth the extra effort to achieve this, let me know and I'll explain this in detail.
The basic premise of this work-around is that the loads are connected to the proper phase of the Panel, but the actual Circuit Numbers are rubbish. The Circuit Numbers must be done manually, more or less. The circuit section of the Panel Schedules are actually two Electrical Circuit Schedules (see below). I shall attach a sample Project file (Revit 2014) as well as walk though this cumbersome process.
#1. Prepare the Panel and Circuit Electrical Devices
The first thing to do is to select the single-phase Panels and change "Max #1 Pole Breakers" to double what you want it to be. This will account for the complete disuse of the B Phase. Next, create a Panel Schedule using your single-phase Panel Schedule Template, which will show A/B Phases. Prior to circuiting, place a SPACE into every B Phase load and lock it. I just click on the first line, hit "Assign Space", then "Lock", hit the down arrow twice, and repeat. Now create your Electrical Circuits and all of them will only connect to the A Phase.
One of the downsides to this method will be the application of Spaces and Spares, since the circuit section of the Panel Schedule will not be used. So, attached is a Family called "Electrical Proxy Load" which contains an Electrical Connector and parameters. The Category of this Family has been changed to 'Electrical Fixtures'. Place an instance of this and connect one to the Panel to represent each Spare or Space.
#2. Alternate Circuit Numbers
Of course, by omitting the B Phase, the Circuit Numbers will skip, so we cannot use the Circuit Numbers assigned by Revit. The first thing to do is to add a Shared Parameter (Integer), named something like "CKTnumber1Ø", as a Project Parameter that applies to both the Electrical Fixtures and the Electrical Circuits Categories. Add this Shared Parameter to an Electrical Fixtures Tag in order to report the "correct" Circuit Number. Note that it is not possible to do this using the Wires Category.
A Schedule will be utilized to control the new Circuit Numbers. Create a new Electrical Circuit Schedule and include any Fields you wish but be sure to at least include "Panel", "Circuit Number", and your Shared Parameter. Set the Sorting/Grouping to "Panel" (Header) and "Circuit Number". The formatting doesn't matter, but you can hide the "Panel" Field. Hit 'OK'. Here is part of the manual labor; the Schedule will be sorted by the wonky Revit Circuit Numbers. In the column for your Shared Parameter, just enter the values 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. all the way down.
Another Schedule must be created and managed in the exact same way, except that this one will be an "Electrical Fixture Schedule". This is duplicate work, but it is the only way I have found to represent the new Circuit Numbers on the electrical plans.
#3. Creating the Panel Schedule
Duplicate your normal single-phase Panel Schedule Template and name with the suffix "Header Only" and edit this Template. For all of the Circuit Rows below the header: remove all Parameters possible (and replace the column header text), remove all borders and shading, set the text to 1/512" (but no smaller) and justified to Top Left. Under 'Set Template Options', set the "Number of slot shown:" to Fixed Value. This exact number will have to be tweaked later to get the appropriate gap size.
Create a new Electrical Circuit Schedule named "CKTs [Panel] Odd" and include "Panel" and the same Fields that would be shown in your Panel Schedule (in that order); use your Shared Parameter in place of the normal Circuit Number. Also, create a Calculated Value named "EvenCKT" with the formula:
CKTnumber1Ø / 2 = roundup(CKTnumber1Ø / 2) where "CKTnumber1Ø" is the name of your Shared Parameter.
Set the Filter to "Panel" "equals" and enter a specific panel name. Set the second Filter rule to be "EvenCKT" "equals" "no". Sort by your Shared Parameter. Hide the "Panel" and "EvenCKT" Fields. Set the Appearance to match your Panel Schedule and disable "Show Title" and "Show Headers".
Open a Panel Schedule View and set the Template to the "Header Only" Template. Place it on a Sheet View, and then place the newly created Electrical Circuit Schedule into the gap of the Panel Schedule. Adjust the column widths to match the Panel Schedule's widths, it will take up half of the horizontal width of the Panel Schedule. Once this is set, duplicate the "ODD CKTs" Schedule, reverse the order of the Fields, and modify the second Filter to "EvenCKT" "equals" "Yes". Place it and the column widths will be correct. Modify the Panel Schedule Template to adjust the gap as needed.
These "ODD" and "EVEN" Electrical Circuit Schedules must be duplicated for each applicable Panel. Just modify the specified Panel Name in the Schedule's Filter. It's very easy after the first ones are created - you only have to correct the column sizes once.
Phew!
Funny... I was just contemplating this issue the other day, as a similar question was asked by one of our Technical Specialists in Brazil. Something came to me that might work; on the surface, it seems to. See the attached, and see if it works as expected.
Interesting, I think I see how this works now. So, if Electrical Circuits are connected to a single-pole Switchboard Panel, all of the loads connect to the A Phase, but if those same Circuits are connect to a single-pole Branch Panel, then they will connect to the A and B Phases as appropriate.
When I tested this option earlier, I had connected several Electrical Circuits to my Branch Panel and then edited the Family to change it to a Switchboard Panel. The Switchboard Schedule looked correct, but the Circuits were still connected to the A and B Phases. I just did the reverse in your Project file; I edited your Panel and changed it to a Branch Panel and then the connected load to the B Phase read zero (see image) but the total Panel Load was correct.
So in essesnce, this method is the best option so long as the Panel is defined as a Switchboard before circuiting.
The reason this works is that a Switchboard will always populate circuits starting from the first phase... e.g., even if you have a 3-phase switchboard, and connect a bunch of 1-pole devices to it, they will all be on Phase A. This is based on an assumption that you’ll always use 3-pole loads… it doesn’t give you the flexibility to select what phase to put things in.
Circuiting for 1-pole branch circuit panels wonky, as you found Revit will put things on A and B.. further, there is no way to hide or disable the ‘B’ column.. Your only options in the schedule template: For Single Phase Panels: () hide column for third phase () Show but disable column for third phase… inferring that it always assumes a line-to-line single phase condition. Provides no flexibility for the line-to-neutral case. Both of these limitations are easily overcome w/ the Part Type = Switchboard option.
Glad to help out... can you please let me know where you are located? Just curious where you have the need for a 1-pole L-N panel. We don't hear about it too often, but it comes up occasionally... so I'm wondering what country content packs we may want to provide this for out-of-the-box.
Cheers-
MS
Busta01 said he was from South Africa in this thread. I thought it was interesting that they do it this way. If you have 4 equally loaded distribution panels, one leg of your switchboard feeder is going to have twice the load of the other two legs. Seems like it could lead to trouble.
jmlarias-- are you saying you don't see 2P single phase panels, but you *do* see 1P single phase panels?
Thanks... and what voltage is used in France? nominal 400 L-L and 230 L-N?
In a related question is there a way to rename the "B Phase" to "C" as in a 120/240V high leg delta configuration?
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