Prevent Custom Angle Elbows

[Anonymous]

I have attached our elbow family which is a modified out-of-the-box Revit elbow family (the schedule 40 pvc elbow). Is there a way to have it only create elbows that are in the lookup table? The problem we are having is that on occasion Revit will create a 90.045° elbow or even an 80° elbow. I have been able to configure the elbow to warn us when it creates a custom angle, it would be great if it were possible to only create angles specified in the lookup table.

[chrisplyler]

[Anonymous]

Thanks Chris. Unfortunately, those settings have no effect on the situation I am describing. It's really strange, you'd think that that would prevent custom angles but it doesn't.

[chrisplyler]

Did you uncheck all the angles you don't want available? When I only have, for example, 90-deg and 45-deg checked, and place pipe, they are the only two angles I can get.

[Anonymous]

I see what you mean, but the kind of angles I am getting are most frequently ones like 90.0037° or 45.013° which aren't that big of a deal, but occasionally I will get 75 or 80° elbows and that's a big problem. Even with all of those boxes checked I shouldn't get any elbows like those I just described.

[chrisplyler]

You're right, you shouldn't be getting those numbers at all!

Are you getting those numbers here? (see picture)

I'm wondering if the project you're working in has had true north rotated slightly? And if you're working in a view set to true north instead of project north? Just a guess based on a total whim as I'm grasping at straws. Are you modeling on a Level? Or some other work plane that's skewed slightly?

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I didn't see your reply until today for some reason. Those are some great ideas. The project I got this image from does not have a rotated project north or true north. Actually it's one of those dismal situations all the other disciplines are in CAD. You can see that I have all the problematic elbows highlighted in Red, this happens automatically and warns us when they are created so we are not completely screwed. To answer your other question, yes, we are modeling on a level. I don't hold much hope for this anymore, seems my best option is to notify development of the issue. Thanks again for your thoughts!

[chrisplyler]

I can see that there is something going on here. I can tell there are at least two different angles between "perpendicular" runs. What do you get if you place an angular dimensions between pipes connected to one of the problem fittings? Make sure your project units defines angular dimensions with a couple of decimal places.

[Anonymous]

You can see the dimension is as expected.

So check out the family parameters:

It seems to me that the "Angle" parameter is driven by the angle we are trying to draw between the two pipes. It will accept any angle the way it is currently configured, and for some reason, Revit is allowing angles other than what is specified in the Mechanical Settings (11.25, 22.5, 30, 45, 60, 90). If I could find a way to limit the input to the "Angle" parameter to the angles specified in the "Angle 1" formula, then my problem would be solved. I'm actually not sure what the purpose of the "Angle 1" parameter is, I don't understand the need for two angle parameters. I actually never fully understood the elbow family, I just modified it slightly and totally revamped the lookup table.

[chrisplyler]

So...were the pipes drawn before you began messing with the settings that limit the angles available? And were they drawn diagonally like that in the view? If I were modeling pipes in plan view and I knew most of them needed to be orthagonal to something OTHER than the view, I would rotate the view's Crop Region first, model orthagonally, and then rotate the view's Crop Region back.

I suspect that the pipes were drawn out of the equipment family (or wall or whatever it is), which is at some odd angle, out to the first fitting, and then drawn to one of the Angular Dimension Snap Increments established within the Manage > Snaps dialog box. And that the Angular Dimension Snap Increment was very close to looking perpendicular to the odd-angled first segment so the user assumed it was 90deg. I expect if you put in a reference plane perfectly horizontal, and then place and angular dimension between it and the side of the equipment family (or wall or whatever it is), you'll find it's 0.22deg off of one of the standard snap values.

[Anonymous]

While the pictures I sent were not orthagonal, the view in which the piping was modeled was a rotated crop region and orthagonal. I see what you mean about the wall/equipment, and I can see some situations where that would cause what is happening. I was doing some piping myself yesterday (I typically don't and don't have much experience) and ran into the problem myself. However, it was my methods (drawing lines first then piping over them) that caused custom elbows. It's hard to explain, but when I was rotating lines and such, odd angles would result because of how I trimmed and extended lines. If I were able to freehand draw pipe, rather than lay it out exactly and fine-tuned, I don't think the weird angles would happen due to the snapping. So I think it's our fault that it happens, but I wish Revit would simply not create the custom fittings at all.

[chrisplyler]

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the effort you put into helping me out.

[chrisplyler]

Always try to help if I can.

I'm not sure I understand your method... You're drawing detail lines and then tracing over them with pipe? Why can't you just draw pipe, or even pipe placeholder lines?

[Anonymous]

connector tolerance in the family

[Anonymous]

pressing the TAB key while drawing/connecting/stretching pipes will allow angles outside of the specific angles. and will quickly cause the issue you are trying to explain

[Anonymous]

in the elbow family uncheck all the locked parameters and reload into THE rvt.

 then try to create the same thing you see there where the elbow angle parameter says 90.22..while the angle1 says 90.00

also create a new file draw new pipe with the newly modified elbow and see if you can replicate the 90.22,,,

I tried every way i know to get the angle1 and angle parameters to differ thru stretching and drawing and connecting but could NOT get the same results shown in your picture.

 

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

I created a new project, changed the pipe tolerance as you suggested, removed all locks on parameters, reloaded the family and still get custom fittings. The easiest way to get this to occur is by drawing sloped piping. Can you try drawing sloped piping and see if this occurs for you?

[Anonymous]

Got it finally i had to remove specific angles setting and select any angle under pipe segements and sizes.