Plumbing MEP created by 3rd party program H2X, when inserted comes into the model in the completely wrong place

[21068166MC656]

Hello,

I was / am new to Revit and was given a trial by a new company to deliver plumbing drawings for a project, and it was meant to be delivered by 23/12/22 (last Friday).

I "drafted" the entire design in H2X, and whilst the owners of that program have been trying hard to assist me, I was still very confused and have only just been able to insert it into a linked architectural model. However the entire MEP model is in the completely wrong place. I think the levels are correct, but horizontally its completely wrong.

I'm also completing an engineering masters over the Christmas break so I'm not able to devote my full attention (time wise) to rectify this. I was only able to insert the model after creating a workset for it. I don't know how to shift the plumbing pipes into their correct position, and the H2X team are mostly on a break at the moment. I need to fix this urgently so the client will have some confidence in giving me work next year.

I basically have no idea how to fix this. The other problem I will have, which I though was going to be the only difficulty I would have to overcome - so I was prepared for this: when the sanitary drainage is imported, it comes into the model all completely flat with no grade on any of the pipes. That has to be manually fixed.

A little help please?

This project is worth $1600 for me to deliver, and right now I can't invoice the client for incorrect unfinished work - let alone expect any more projects to deliver next year, and I'm wanting to depend on this client for bread and butter work. I'm taking a huge loss on this. During the day I have to work on an engineering masters thesis, so I don't have the time for this.

As I'm forced to choose, I'm prioritising the masters work over the revit work, because the masters is the cumulation of a 2 year degree.

[vytautas]

You should check the coordinates first, seems they don't match between models. You can simply open the architectural model and check how it's positioned: by project base point, survey point, etc. Then open your MEP model and check the same details. If you notice something differs, that might be the answer.

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

Open the H2X model, select the Arch link and Acquire Coordinates.  Then open the Arch model and relink the H2X model in using shared coordinates.  Feel free to share both models here if you want.

[21068166MC656]

Thanks very much guys, I’ll try this as soon as I am free. Sorry - I would have responded earlier to your advice but wouldn’t you know it but my car broke down at the university last night when I was building a real world plumbing model to do tests on - so I have to deal with that also now! Thankfully I have a friend who can help with that.. 

I’ll upload all the files for the project, but please forgive my confusion, I think the H2X file/model is a workset and I don’t understand how to move it, or identify where the coordinates are for it immediately. I think I have bound some models together in the project now, MEP being one of them. The BIM manager from the client firm sets up a hydraulics model which we are supposed to do our work in. I’m not sure if I have worked in that - I think I have.

I’m just apologizing for the delay in this reply. Thank you for your offer of help and advice. I’ll post back on here as soon as I can.

[21068166MC656]

Hello,

I started watching a youtube video on how to acquire coordinates: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHhXv5GRWoQ> and got immediately stuck 1:40 seconds in as the "view range" won't open on my file.

I absolutely have no idea how to do this - I'm just going to upload my whole file.

Could you please investigate what has happened? I'm a gun at autocad, but on a very steep learning curve here with revit. This is a Revit 2020 file I'm uploading.

So to begin with I don't even know how to locate the coordinates, find out where they are, or ascertain if I'm uploading a linked model  - I don't understand what it is I'm now uploading if its 2 linked files, or 1 file with a workset inserted. Sorry I'm apologising in advance for my level of inexperience here.

Thanks @vytautas and @ToanDN 

[21068166MC656]

please see below reply to @Anonymous which I'd like your input in on as well please. I've uploaded what I've got / working on.

[vytautas · Accepted solution]

I don't see anything strange in your model. Your all coordinates are at the same location: 0,0,0, so that's a good start. Since I don't have the architectural part, I can't compare the coordinates between models. If the coordinates are the same, so there is nothing to acquire.

[21068166MC656]

OK some of my responses may be due to ignorance, so please be patient with me:

If I uploaded one file to you, which was purely a hydraulics model, I don't understand how we/I have a solution as that would mean (to me) that the pipes displaying in the hydraulic model are out of place?

I don't understand really what a workset is, but in order for H2X to "import pipes" as the add-in refers to it, I needed to create a workset for it. Somewhere it displays grid-lines that are overlapping or identical to an underlying set of grid-lines. If the grid-lines of the workset are lined up with the grid-lines of the hydraulic model - why then are the pipes all in the wrong place and how do I solve that?

I've found the architectural model from my clients server, and I'll upload it here now as an attachment. I don't know if that will let you know anything or not. (G-Drive link sent instead due to size)

Basically I have a huge problem here and no idea how to solve it.

At one point I tried to just start again and place hydraulic families in bathrooms, which could only be attached to walls (I think). I tried to insert a floor waste (which should have a riser, and P trap under the floor - and the basin would run to the floor waste riser prior to the floor waste connecting into the drain), but every time I tried to place a floor waste in the floor - it disappeared from the view, and it triggered a warning. I don't know if that's a workplane issue? Or a viewing issue? (Or even a family issue?) But on clicking on the warning Revit took me to a 3D view with the floor waste in it and I could delete it from there.

I have done basic revit plumbing designs before, and I don't recall placing families or plumbing fixtures on the floor as a problem which would make my whole attempt to fall down like a stack of cards. I actually need to learn how to do all this on my own without relying on H2X, its just I spent about 30-40 hours in H2X running up to my deadline and I didn't want that to be wasted time.

I don't understand what's going wrong with the pipes being in the wrong place, I didn't understand the point/use/purpose of worksets and why H2X needed that prior to insertion into the model, I don't know how/why the pipes from the H2X model came in out of place or how to fix that. I don't understand how I have a problem with views, and why I can't simply run pipes connecting to fixtures. If the hydraulics model already contains fixtures represented there - I don't understand why it is when I click the mouse on them, they don't show up as a fixture family - and so I don't know if I should have placed imported fixtures over them and tried to connect them together (which I thought I had to do). Sorry I also don't know how you were able to extract the coordinates from the model I sent you - just by the way.

I did watch a tutorial by "Balkin architect" a while ago and was able to do the plumbing on a simple house. I've also about 2.5 - 3 years ago done a full MEP course run by a company that charged the firm I was working at over $2000 for me to do.

I have made good progress in my thesis work for my masters and would like to try and get this revit project drafted and completed prior to next Tuesday when my lecturer is going to inspect my physical model (for my masters thesis), in a hydraulics laboratory at University.

Many thanks for your help - please get back to me when you are able, I greatly appreciate this assistance.

The architectural model is too large to send here, so I'll send a Google Drive Link instead, and send the structural model on here if that helps in any way.

GoogleDrive Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12yQXDxSBHfzmMnrodleO27Ogv-Y8CMbv?usp=sharing

@vytautas @ToanDN 

[vytautas · Accepted solution]

No issues with structural part as well, all coordinates are at 0,0,0 too.

So I believe all questions are related to H2X software. I'm not familiar with it, so can't tell how coordinates work in it. I took a quick look at it. Seems it's a separate software, having its own platform and somehow able to generate 3D models: "Import the H2X design directly to Revit to generate a 3D model of all pipes, fittings, and valves". 

If I had to find a solution within Revit, I'd simply move all MEP elements manually to new location.

[21068166MC656]

thanks @Anonymous could you please tell me how I can move all MEP elements manually?

[21068166MC656]

I think I'm going to lose my job

[21068166MC656]

How do I move the pipes in the model please?

[21068166MC656]

@vytautas @ToanDN 

Sorry people - I'm having to learn from scratch again how to model in revit (which is my job description I know anyway and something I need to learn urgently), I guess we are in different time zones - but could either of you please urgently advise how to move the pipes?

Right now, I'm starting from lesson 1 in the Autodesk MEP training online to determine how to do plumbing in revit. Only way I can make a pipe visible is to create a elevation view to draw pipes. I don't even know how to import uPVC families for piping into my model / any model. 

I'm going to try and get one of these H2X people to help me when their offices are closed, This is critical and I just need to learn how to do this - please help me?

[vytautas · Accepted solution]

If you want to move the entire MEP system, select all elements of it, select Move command, show a base point and move it to new location. I'd probably do the following in this case since you don't have a good reference point for moving. A good reference point is a grid but you don't have it in your model.

1. Draw a simple pipe riser where it actually should be. That could be your reference point.

2. Select all MEP elements, you can do it in 3D view, after that, you can switch to a floor plan view.

3. Use Move tool and show the center point of riser from your system, as a base point for moving. Move the entire system where your drawn riser is, kind of "align" systems by risers.

It's just a suggestion.

Or simply wait a bit for H2X help, perhaps it can be solved much easier from H2X software side.

If you don't see objects, you might check View Range settings of each floor plan view first.

[21068166MC656]

Half the problem I’m just realising is that I’m using revit 2020 straight out of the box if you know what I mean, do I have no pvc pipe families, I only had whatever default families come with the program when you first use it. 

I’m learning slowly about how you need to create pvc sanitary drainage by cutting carbon steel etc. So this is a huge hassle and now everything even in place looks deformed.

 Any quick way to import these libraries would be handy, I imported a h2x model with nothing. All my views are totally stuffed

[21068166MC656]

auto correct made that last post a bit incoherent apologies

[vytautas · Accepted solution]

If you want to transfer some pipe types, you can do it with Transfer Project Standards tool, found on the Manage tab. You have to open two Revit models, one could be your model, another could be a common template for plumbing systems installed with Revit. Make active any view of your model, start this tool and copy required settings from another Revit file, including pipe types, pipe sizes, etc.

[21068166MC656]

@Anonymous thank you very much indeed

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

You don't move every single piece of pipe. You link the architectural in MEP then move the architectural link.  If you link the MEP in architectural then you move the MEP link.

[RobDraw]

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@21068166MC656 wrote:

Hello,

I was / am new to Revit and was given a trial by a new company to deliver plumbing drawings for a project, and it was meant to be delivered by 23/12/22 (last Friday).

I "drafted" the entire design in H2X

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Not a good start for a job that needs to be done in Revit.

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@21068166MC656 wrote:

I need to fix this urgently so the client will have some confidence in giving me work next year.

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@21068166MC656 wrote:

This project is worth $1600 for me to deliver, and right now I can't invoice the client for incorrect unfinished work - let alone expect any more projects to deliver next year, and I'm wanting to depend on this client for bread and butter work. I'm taking a huge loss on this. During the day I have to work on an engineering masters thesis, so I don't have the time for this.

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What's your loss? If you didn't have time, maybe you shouldn't have taken on a job that you can't fulfill. Don't you think that they are going to realize that you didn't do it in Revit?

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@21068166MC656 wrote:

As I'm forced to choose, I'm prioritising the masters work over the revit work, because the masters is the cumulation of a 2 year degree.

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Best choice yet, by far.