Chaging floor plan view to ceiling view in a subview

[PaulineP54QC]

Hello,

I created a new view (discipline=electrical) for the "Special System". After I placed most of the devices I realized that it would be more convenient to have the ceiling plan instead of the floor plan. Since all the devices are already on the floor plan I wondering if there is a way to change it to ceiling plan without create a new "ceiling plan view". Any help will be pretty much appreciated. 

Thanks!

[smbrennan]

Unfortunately, that is your only option. If you're concerned about the view settings, here's what I recommend:

1. Create a View Template with your existing floor plan view. I recommend unchecking the View Range before finalizing.
2. Create a new RCP Plan for that level
3. Assign the View Template you created above to the new RCP Plan. You'll need to change a pulldown option to see that template.
4. If you plan on using the View Template because you have multiple floors/views, then re-define the view template for convenience. It'll re-associate with RCPs as opposed to Floor Plans. 

[linkboy]

You can underlay the ceiling plan view. By doing that, no change needed for your existing floor view, choose underlay and looking up towards the ceiling. The device will be projected to your ceiling plan as you manipulated the view direction. 

[PaulineP54QC]

smbrennan

I apprecite your fast respionses. My feedback:

The reason I want the RCP is because the special system( ceiling mounted) can't find a "host" so it is difficult to do the coordination in the ceiling plans already created. I should have use the RCP to place all the devices in the ceiling (which I regret!). So you are saying that I need to create a new "Subview" RCP Plan the change the VG so all my devices will showup (special system) and then change the range view?

linkboy

I am not sure how to do the "Underlay" RPC on my flor plan. Our architectural floor plan is Linked via cloud.

I don't see an option to Underlay the RCP (see the screenshot below). I tried the look up but it did not work, if that is what you tried to explain. I need the ceiling plan so my ceiling mount devices can find an appropriate "host" (face).

[s.borello · Accepted solution]

You can draw a ref plan and align it to the ceiling height and host your families to said Ref plane. 

[iainsavage]

This whole thread is quite confusing.

You say you’ve placed elements in a floor plan but then you say they couldn’t find hosts?

You also imply that they are ceiling hosted elements? Are they, or are they face hosted?

So what are they attached to?

Let’s assume they’re on the floor - is that acceptable to you?

Revit isn’t a 2D drawing tool it is supposed to be a coordinated 3D model.

Would it not be better to correct the mistake and put it down to experience rather than just trying to fool the eye with trickery?

PS to get an RCP underlay change the underlay orientation from “look down” to “look up”.

Also, ceiling hosted families won’t find a host in linked files - there is no ceiling to attach to, so if your working with linked models use face-based families.

Hope this helps.

[ToanDN]

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@PaulineP54QC wrote:

Hello,

I created a new view (discipline=electrical) for the "Special System". After I placed most of the devices I realized that it would be more convenient to have the ceiling plan instead of the floor plan. Since all the devices are already on the floor plan I wondering if there is a way to change it to ceiling plan without create a new "ceiling plan view". Any help will be pretty much appreciated. 

Thanks!

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If you placed fixture (host based) in a floor plan view then the fixture orientation is likely wrong and fixing them will cost more time than placing them again.  Just create a new ceiling plan view, turn on Underlay so that you see the floor plan in halftone, and place the fixture based on the location you see on the underlay.  When done, go back to he floor plan and delete the wrong fixture.

[PaulineP54QC]

lol, in my opinion Revit is more confusing. My devices are in the floor of course? and that is not what I want! what would it be the point working in Revit like you say? lol  the devices are in the floor because they could not find a face, that's the point of this whole thread, I need a way around to relocate those devices on the ceiling but they are all in a floor plan because they were wall mounted before the client (yes it was not my mistake) decided they wanted them ceiling mounted. Ceiling mounted objects can't find a host if you are not in the RCP. Thanks but it did not help.

[RobDraw]

It's not clear as to the kind of help you want. Every response here has helpful advice. How do you want to proceed?

[iainsavage]

I fully understand how to place face or ceiling hosted families.

My point is that you should do it right and just replace them on the ceiling instead of the floor instead of trying to get a floor plan to pretend that its a ceiling plan.

Not to mention what it will look like in section.

Or if the team try to coordinate the ceiling plan only to find out that some of the objects are on the floor.

You should just start again.

Here’s a thought - open a section, draw a horizontal line or plane halfway between the floor and ceiling, select all of your floor mounted objects, mirror them around the line  - that might work (objects might find a host or maybe become unhosted but at least they’ll be in the right place and orientation) - thats just a guess though, might not work.

.

[smbrennan]

Yea Revit can be more confusing when you’re first getting used to it. Everything about it is different than AutoCAD. 

How a family is built (unhosted, face based, wall based, ceiling based) will ultimately affect how it needs to be placed, including particular orientations. A wall based face based family can be created for outlets, but you can’t host them to a reference plane, but a face-based family is built exactly the same. 

building in that, it sounds like your family can be unhosted, or face based. If it’s unhosted it’s being placed on the current work plane. When in a floor plan, that is your level. If it’s face based, floor plans look down so you’re hosting to the floor or level. RCP plans look up, resulting in the surface you see being the ceiling or structure above. 

the first year of Revit will be frustrating. I have not met a single person who after working in Revit for a period of time long enough to use many of the powerful tools built in, has ever said AutoCAD is better. They don’t want to go back and dread the projects if they do.

I obviously don’t know your history, but these forums are a great resource for getting help. Depending on what you’re doing, some of us may ask for a file to dissect it further to identify the actual cause. “You don’t know what you don’t know” - it kinda makes it hard to ask for help when you don’t understand what’s causing the problem that’s resulted in asking for help. Been there, we all have. 

[iainsavage]

Sorry, I now just realised you said the fixtures are wall mounted. 
Can’t you just slide them up to ceiling level by changing the elevation value?

Then they’ll show in your ceiling plan, sections etc in the right place.

They are not “in” the floor plan (unless they are just 2D families), they are in the model and can be viewed in floor plan or ceiling plan, section, 3D if you get the settings right.

[PaulineP54QC]

Thanks for your response. That is definitely a solution. I will have to create several ref. plans since there are different ceiling heights. I was trying to avoid that. Anyway thanks for your response!

[PaulineP54QC]

That's OK. I appreciate your efforts in this matter. I will see what I ca do. In some cases Revit has more that one solution. Maybe I am thinking out of the box. Thanks!

[PaulineP54QC]

I will definitively try that. Thanks! 

[PaulineP54QC]

Thanks for your response. I know what you mean. For instance we sometime need to locate a receptacles on the ceiling, so we have to create new families to accomplish that because the standard receptacle will not do it. 

[iainsavage]

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@PaulineP54QC wrote:

Thanks for your response. I know what you mean. For instance we sometime need to locate a receptacles on the ceiling, so we have to create new families to accomplish that because the standard receptacle will not do it. 

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I don’t think you are understanding what @smbrennan and myself are saying.

Ceiling hosted families will ONLY attach to a ceiling.

Wall hosted families will ONLY attach to a wall

Floor hosted families will ONLY attach to a floor

If you are using linked models that causes issues for MEP models because the building elements are not physically within your model.

Hence use face hosted families which will attach to ANY face (or a workplane), including a ceiling.

But that is a distraction from your main query and I’m still not clear where these objects are in your model. You seem to think they are “in” a floor plan but attached to the wall and you want to view them in a ceiling plan - is that correct?

I assume you do know that 3D objects don’t reside in any particular view. They are 3D objects in a 3D model and floor plans and other views are just different ways of looking at the one model - whether you create floor plans, ceiling, plans, sections the objects are the same ones in all views, you don’t “redraw” in order to see different views of them.

So, going back to your initial post, if you did create a new ceiling plan, your objects will be in it as long as (a) they are above the floor and (b) they are within the view range of the ceiling plan. You don’t need to “redraw” them.

People are trying to help you here and its all becoming very confusing as to what you have done and what you want to achieve so could you start again and explain very simply, from the beginning, what your question is.

If at all possible upload the model, or at least some screenshots, to help us to visualise the situation.

[PaulineP54QC]

OK.  Just a little bit of my background, English is my second Language (so forgive my grammar!), I am an EE and have been using Revit for 6 years. I have a basic and advanced Revit training certification from a local community college. My answer to your first question is no (obviously!). I understand about families, types, parameters, linked models, etc. Also I understand the relationship between families and hosted types (floor, ceiling & walls) that's why came my inquire. First, I placed my object (hundreds of speakers) attached to the walls then per client request all the speakers needs to be ceiling mount. You are saying that the speaker family that came standard in Revit will not find a host in the ceiling, right? So how can I change the speaker to ceiling mount? One guy responded and said to create a reference plane (RP), I though about that too as my possible solution but I would have to create several RP since there are several ceiling heights in this building. Also it would be very tedious since I have to select every single speaker then use "Pick New", until I decided to do it one thing. I did select one speakers and then "Pick One" find my RP (I named by the room name) and it worked as expected but the best think I did select 5 speaker and then "Pick One" find my RP and Voilá! I could place 5 speakers and attached to the RP at the same time! the rest is history. I hope you understand my point so far.  You may have more that one solution but you need a little bit of time to think which one would be better for your needs.  I really appreciated all the efforts from everyone to try to help me. I thank everybody!

Have a great day! 😊 

PS: It always confuse me the correct use of "in" and "on" in English grammar! 😆 Sorry if I confused everybody!

[iainsavage]

I sincerely am trying to help you out of a problem here, I understand how big a task it will be if you have to re-model all of your speakers, but clarity in the questions and answers will help us all.

I'm aware that English is not your first language and I did not intend to insult your abilities (you are actually better qualified than me in Revit - I'm just a design engineer with about two days of formal training and many, many, many hours of trawling forums, youtube etc). The problem is not language - you will see from my other posts that I have helped many non-English speakers including using Google translate to assist.

The title of your post is "Changing floor plan view to ceiling view in a subview" and I, among others, assumed that you just wanted to look up rather down to see the objects that you had already positioned.

Your latest response "((hundreds of speakers) attached to the walls then per client request all the speakers needs to be ceiling mount)" now clarifies that you actually want to move the objects from the walls onto the ceiling.

I don't think that can be done without manually selecting, picking new host and repositioning (I'm happy for anyone else to disagree).

Regarding
"You are saying that the speaker family that came standard in Revit will not find a host in the ceiling, right?" - I'm not saying that at all. I don't know what family you are using. What I am saying is that IF the family is ceiling based then it won't attach to anything other than a ceiling in your model.

It is more likely that what you have is a face based family and it is attached to the faces of the walls. You could originally have placed those families on a ceiling but you normally have to do this in an RCP so that they attach to the bottom face of the ceiling. You could place them on a ceiling using a floor plan but the view range would need to be from above the ceiling to below the ceiling and the families would attach to the top face of the ceiling (i.e. they would be upside down).

"So how can I change the speaker to ceiling mount?" - I don't know of any way to make them jump from the walls onto the ceilings other than either starting again or going through the whole "pick new host" procedure.

It really would be useful if you could upload part of your model or at least some images of what you've got and what you want to change it to.

[iainsavage]

The only speaker family that I could find in my (UK) library is called "Wall Speaker" but when I open it it is a face based family and can be placed on any face including the ceiling.

If your speakers are still going to be placed around the room perimeter (which I assume they are since they are attached to walls) then moving them vertically would make it look as though they are in the ceiling but they are still  wall hosted. 

By opening the family and tweaking the geometry (I just unlocked and edited a couple of dimensions) the speaker then changes height/width ratio so it projects further out horizontally from the wall and is flatter in section.

It then looks even more as though it is in the ceiling, but it is still on the wall.

With a bit more effort you get the look that you want.

The problem is if you want them to be out in the middle of the room because they are wall hosted and will hug the walls - you could get around this by adjusting geometry even more, maybe introducing a reference plane and "offset from host" parameter so that even although it is hosted by the wall the body of the speaker would be pushed out into the room. 

That's about the best that I can suggest.