Tag for multiple electrical connectors

[fabiosato]

Ability to tag multiple electrical connectors for Electrical Fixtures, Lighting Fixtures and Lighting Devices. Create in the Tag a connector number parameter:

• 0 – all connectors.
• 1 – connector 1.
• 2 – connector 2 and so on.

[Martin__Schmid]

Thanks for the suggestion.

What properties would you need to tag?  Is it only the circuit number and the panel name?  Or, are there some other properties that are required?

Would it be acceptable if an element had two connectors, that you would tag it with two separate tags, one for each connector?

[fabiosato]

Hello Martin,

Usually, we extract Circuit Number, Apparente Power, Panel and Shared parameter values.

I believe, separate tags are a better solution, we can adjust the position of smaller amount f information than find a place for a large tag!

If the same tag can read the data from the connector and from the family information is the best scenario in my opinion!

The only situation were reading all connectors information would be for lighting switches, when they are all in the same circuit, but with multi switch IDs, but the implementation of a solution for each connector will solve the problem!

[Martin__Schmid]

Thanks for the additional details, Fabio-

Are you suggesting that what you need is shared parameters on the connectors --- each connector with it's own value for the shared parameter?  

Or, are you saying that the shared parameter is a property of the (e.g.,) Lighting Fixture, and you want that property to be taggable along with the connector?

If the connector tag could NOT read the properties of the family, but only the connector info, would that be OK, or is that a show stopper?

If you could include family parameters in the connector tag, how would you deal with having redundant family info in each connector's tag?

Thanksagain!

[Martin__Schmid]

>> The only situation were reading all connectors information would be for lighting switches, when they are all in the same circuit, but with multi switch IDs, but the implementation of a solution for each connector will solve the problem!

Can you elaborate on that?  Perhaps provide a specific example of how you would expect this to work?  Are you suggesting that a single switch family instance with multiple connectors should be able to be in different switch systems (and thus have different Switch IDs on each connector?), and may or may not each be on the same circuit?

[fabiosato]

Hello Martin,

First the connectors, the Shared Parameters relates to the family, not shared parameters for connectors, sorry for the missunderstanding.

I can accept if the tags from the second connector on can´t read family parameters, but at least the first one of them must me able to do this, I have a height parameter that must be tagged if the fixture is not at any standard height, we have low, medium and high standard heights for outlets and switches.

I will try to detail the scenario:

One outlet terminal with two connectors, each one with a different circuit and power value.

The first one, in red, reports the outlet height, the second one, in green, just the circuit and power, so only connector info is OK! This use only makes sense if they are connected indifferent circuits!

The second situation, relates to switches, I have a triple switch, two of them in one circuit, and the third in a different circuit.

What the image shows is not desirable, how we display in tags would be:

3ab

4c

Now to do so, we need three tags, one with only the Switch ID, and two with circuit and switch ID, but all this is manual.

The best solution would be:

Revit can recognize and group circuits and IDs, the circuit separator can be the one in the electrical settings, or I can set it in the tag, controlling the tag width, the information could be displayed in one line or multi lines.

If we could create a tag that has a label with the CIRCUIT and APPARENT POWER paratemers, the tag could read all connectors in the family, and organize the information like a schedule, group by circuit and if apparent power is the same, sum the value, or places a Nx before the value, I believe sum is way easier to implement, them include a circuit separator, and repeat the process for the second circuit.

If the tag have and option to include a break after each circuit would be nice!

If you need more detail please ask!

[Anonymous]

If a device has 2 or more circuits, we need the ability to tag each circuit. The example device is circuited to A1 and A2. Currently, Revit only shows A1 tag. Also in the properties of this Device, we only see Circuit Number parameter set to A1. We would like to see Circuit Number Parameter show both circuits.

We do not want to add multiple wires to a device and tag those. This does not work as not all companies add wires. As noted in this workaround https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles...

We have tried Dynamo, but Dynamo does not show the second circuit info whatsoever.

imag 2.jpg

image 0.jpg

image 1.jpg

[ArmandD]

I am going to vote for your idea.  I thought I would tell you how we handle this in the meantime...

For the additional circuit(s) we do add a (very) short segment of wire, then tag the wire.  Then hide the wire by positioning it in the linework of the electrical device or a wall.  When printed, all you see is the electrical device with multiple circuit tags and no visible wires.

Good luck.  I hope they do add the function to tag multiple connectors soon!

[Anonymous]

Currently, there is no "correct" way to schedule or tag secondary circuit information. An example is, adding 2 circuit connectors to a light fixture family. One circuit (primary) gets power and the other (secondary) is circuited to a relay panel. The circuit information on the secondary circuit can not really be used for anything but the panel schedule. You can tag a wire with this information. But, a lot of people do not show wires on their views. Having access to that secondary circuit information through a shared parameter would be extremely valuable. 

[gianfranco_pavan]

Important function. Electrical engineers need it.

[Anonymous]

Hi there,

This happens a lat and we need this too.
There are multiple situation where this happens. 

Data devices with multplie (end)ports
Electrical Equipment with multple ports (data and security)

Electrical equipment with Power and data, power and security or power and fire alarm
Fire Alarm devices

So big UP Vote from me.

With regards,

Theo Kaak

[peter_vanorshoven]

Please allow tagging multiple circuits in one device. This is essential for data connections, where one device has to list 2 cables, with different numbers, according to standards of clients.

[bgrantham]

Big up vote from me also on this. Typically we are working on power systems that have furniture feeds that will have up to 8 different circuits on them which will not necessarily be inline on our panel (exp. 20-34) so just increasing the poles isn't a good solution for the circuit tag to read all circuits assignments. And we do have cases where we are dealing with Emergency Power or UPS assignments on a device location where we will have a standard circuit connected to a panel on one duplex and the other duplex going to an emergency panel circuit. In this situation we need to show not only the circuit number but the panel also. So we would need to tag this situation twice. Our current work around is creating wire tag that shows the circuit number and just pulling a wire from the connector to stay inline with our symbol. Not the best way but keeps the fidelity of the data intact and we are not manually writing in circuit information that could potentially get disconnected if the design changes. I think the idea of having a system parameter for electrical tags that can be assigned as stated would greatly help the situation. So we can take a tag type and assign it to all or a single connector within the device or equipment family would be great.

[Anonymous]

Tagging a second connector in a lighting fixture family would help make Revit useful for modeling and documenting lighting control system. The primary connector connects the fixture to the electrical power panel, and the second connector connects it to the lighting contactor panel, room controller, or other control panel. However, the second connector is useless if the fixture cannot be tagged in plan views with the control panel circuit/zone.

Best Regards,
Nate

[joakeson]

Currently one can only tag the primary electrical connectors. We need to be able to tag both the primary and secondary connectors on specific equipment.

[joakeson]

This is becoming more important with lighting control. We definitely need a fix

[Martin__Schmid]

@Anonymous - can you elaborate on your scenario (posted 6-1-2017) about 'the second connector connects it to the lighting contactor...'.  Several of the posts here are about connecting to multiple power circuits... however, yours seems to be related to a second connector that is not for power... can you elaborate on that a bit, and be a bit more specific about what it is you are connecting, what "System Type" is the connector set to, and what properties of that connector would you want to annotate?

[Martin__Schmid]

@joakeson - can you elaborate on how/why this is 'more important with lighting control'?  Can you provide some examples of what this would look like?  Is this similar/different to ntimmerman's request, and how?

[Martin__Schmid]

@Anonymous - you mentioned Schedule these multiple connectors... do you have an example of how you might expect that to look?

Since the quantity of connectors can be variable, the only 'framework' that exists to support this at present would be an Embedded Schedule... would reporting the connector properties as Embedded Schedule rows on a Lighting Fixture schedule (for example) be acceptable?  why/why not?  

[Anonymous]

@Martin__Schmid lighting is more and more controlled with systems like Dali, knx, priva, lon and others. Lighting fixtures then get a data connector.

[joakeson]

I agree. I'd love for Autodesk to have functionality to deal with relays and then start working on the data interface pieces as you mentioned. We are starting to see lighting with POE functionality as well that will happen in the near future.