Phasing Rooms

[Anonymous]

Hello, 

Please allow Rooms to be an element that can be phased and demolished.

Often times, demolition views are set to "Show Previous + Demo" on a Phase filter, and "New Construction Phase" on the Phase. Because the view is set to "New construction, all rooms created on an "Existing" Phase disappear. This becomes problematic when rooms within rooms are demolished (two rooms become one room for a renovation project). The boundaries for the existing room no longer exist, so you can't label that room in a demolition view. 

My company circumvents this issue by creating symbols that look like room tags. This works, except that we have to copy the symbolic room tag across multiple views, which is irritating. 

I was hoping this would change with 2019. If this is not possible to do, please explain how to tag existing rooms when the view is set to Phase, "New Construction."

Thank you, 

Michelle 

[dan_BIMmanager]

I can not believe we are still battling this phasing issue in 2021. Rooms issues are high up the wish list and voted on by many a frustrated architects. (hundreds!!!)

Rooms (and spaces) need a complete and long overdue ovehall. Yes with phasing and the ability to see and control them in 3d, with color filter and to adjust or edit a boundary shape. Boundary lines are a pain in the ass as they often get left behind, hidden and can be hard to find and can cause problems. Has anything change with rooms in 22 years of development. I have see just about every work around going now after using revit for the last 12 years. Including apps and scrips to create 3d volumes that can represent rooms in 3d. We are still dealing with rooms as 2d representations in sections and plans that is very irritating, especially in complicated shaped rooms (especially in existing historic buildings) where often the limiting modelling tools in revit negate that there are gaps which result in redundant or not enclosed rooms. Why do i even need a room bounding wall, floor or ceiling to place a room form that can calculate the required area and volume?     

Please Harlam and the factory team, if you want to please the ever more frustrated architectural community, rework rooms and spaces. Why can we still not create rooms requirements and effectively create conceptual volumetric models for pre design fases in revit. Luckily there are lots of up and coming AI driven space planning tools on the horizon (also aquired by ADSK). Wouldn´t it be great if we could link or import results from those types of app to proper 3d spaces in revit. Or just have a flexible 3d way of placing room volumes without having to draw the entire building first. I you are worried about forwards compatibility of legacy models. Just keep the old room version tools for some years but completely rebuild the way we deal with new rooms/space volumes. Spaces 2.0 Building owner would also thank you as well. 

[jkidder]

One more reason why we need phased rooms:  It was exciting to see the ability to filter based on phase created/demolished added in 2022, and we thought this would let us get rid of the manual phase parameter we used...except we still can't phase rooms, and we need to identify whether a room is existing or not.  We regularly use a room color scheme to identify rooms that are not in the project scope, but Revit still can't do that out of the box.  Between that and demo plans we waste a lot of time trying to coordinate rooms across phases, especially on larger projects!

[Base12]

2021... still waiting   ANYHOW, if you use the viewport overlay nonsense - to avoid the absurd pain in the butt of constantly entering the wrong viewport when double clicking - get the "Room Names Only" view selected, pin it, then disable the ability to select pinned objects.  Then, it doesn't matter where you double click, it will always put your cursor into the non-room names view.

[purvigirwin]

At least now in 2022 with the ability to use phasing with view filters, you don't have to layer views anymore to get existing rooms on demo plans. Set a view to existing, create a view filter that pick ups elements by "phased demolished equals new construction" and then do an override for that view filter to show dashed or red dashed or whatever your office standard is. This is now my standard for 2022 templates and workflows that require demolition.

[ViviNyehuusAndersen]

https://blog.bimsmith.com/Working-with-Phases-in-Revit?utm_source=eblast&utm_medium=0721&mc_cid=f5a8...

[lionel.kai]

@ViviNyehuusAndersen?

[ViviNyehuusAndersen]

@lionel.kai this was an extension of @purvigirwin  comment, not very clear.

However if you work structured I don't have trouble placing rooms i Existing. And then changing the phase to New and placing the new Rooms. 

[justin.grayF6N2F]

I didn't read each comment but if not mentioned before, I would suggest not only phasing of rooms but phasing of spaces. An issue though would be that a room should only be "phasable" if its boundaries remain undisturbed. So if a room object was created in Phase 1, and by Phase 3 a wall gets demolished, then the room would automatically be limited to Phase Demolished = Phase 3 (or Phase 2) because the geometry has been changed, if that makes sense. Same with spaces. Another limitation would be that room or space's properties would have to either stay the same for that room's existence, so changing occupancy class parameters would mean they are the same whether changed in Phase 1 or Phase 2.

For spaces though a difficulty might lie in it being assigned to a different HVAC zone depending on the phase if you're getting that far into the weeds.

[LeeFried]

How has this not yet been implemented?

[nemdaec10]

UPDATE - SOLUTION (Revit 2022 or later): A little tedious upfront but a new solution is now available. Now you can apply a view filter to a view that will allow you to show other phase demo work in the pre-demo phase. 

1. Set view phase to EXISTING

2. Phase filter can be set to Previous & New. 

3. In your Demo View Template, go to Filters tab & click Add. 

4. Create a new filter (I call mine DEMO PHASING) & select Define Rules (if it isn't already selected)

5. Under Categories, check all items in the filter list that you want to show up as demolished in your demolition plans. 

6. Under Filter Rules: All Selected - Phase Demolished

7. Under equals: NEW CONSTRUCTION (Click Apply/OK) & go back to the top-level Filters tab. 

8. Check Enable Filter / Visibility 

9. Set overrides to make the items to be demolished look as they should in your Demolition view. 

It would seem to be easier if they would have set up a default filter (another column in the phase filter) that allows you to set the Room & Space phase to be shown, but until then, this is better than overlaying 2 floor plans (IMO). 

[francisco.perez33CBU]

Please add the possibility to show the existing rooms in the NEW phase. On projects of HUGE areas this is required and we always end up adding CAD-Links, but will be better if all is in Revit. The copy/paste supposed solution is not an option, since the room name/numbers keep changing in evolving project, and if you have 5 phases, you have to rework everything again and again. 

[nemdaec10]

If any element that would change the parameters of a room (demo or new wall, new door, square-foot change, etc) were to change, the room information would become unstable so the room cannot extend beyond the static phase that it was placed in. If you think about it, every component in Revit is static, but with doors, walls, windows, or any other component, they are placed within a phase and remain unchanged until they are demolished. Any change between phases that would alter the static nature of a room (see above) would destabilize the room's parameter values (changes in area, boundaries, and affecting elements make those values invalid).

In Revit 2022 (I'm not certain that this existed in 2021) A better workaround has been found with only a minor brain bender required on the user's part to allow the existing or previous phased rooms to show up in the demolition phase: 

1. Create a view of the existing phase with the phase filter set to Previous & New.
2. In Visibility/Graphics Overrides (In your view template if you will have multiple demo views such as plan, RCP, & multiple phases), go to the Filters tab. At the bottom, click on the box Edit/New to modify document filters.
3. Create a new Rule-based Filter for each new construction phase of your project, calling it Demolition, or Demolition-Phase 1... (Make sure you have the new Filter set to Define rules).
4. Check every category that you may have items to demolish. (Some categories can't be added because they aren't phase-specific)
5. Filter Rules: AND (All rules must be true), All Selected..., Phase Demolished, equals, Phase 1 (or whatever phase you are setting the filter for). Apply/OK.
6. Back at the Filters tab, Add your Demolition filter. Set your overrides in Project/Surface & Cut to show all of your demo items correctly in the view.

Remember: You will want to create a view template set for each phase & view type needed. Each view will be set to the existing or previous phase, allowing the correct rooms to show. 

We have put this into our Project Templates and it is working quite well. 

[NateBrush]

Any update where this falls on the roadmap?

[Base12]

@NateBrush

Probably somewhere around here...

 

[j.muntz]

This should be an easy fix for Autodesk. All that needs to happen here is existing rooms are displayed in demolition plans and new rooms are not when phase filter is set to 'show previous and demo'. Rooms could also have a demolished phase just like everything else. The existing rooms are bounded by the walls that exist in the same phase as the room.

This is a fundamental requirement for documenting existing buildings. It should have been fixed years ago. Come on Autodesk pull your finger out! Its rediculous!

[MLMcManus]

Currently, once a room is placed the phase cannot be changed when selecting the room. This needs to be updated so that it can be changed upon selection. Additionally, it should have a schedulable parameter so it can be changed using schedules.

[HVAC-Novice]

I would like to add that rooms also should be in multiple phases and not just change phases (and lose the old phase when they get assigned a new phase). Many rooms stay the same over many phases.

Please also include spaces to have this feature. 

[matthewl9GYTC]

This was already talked about a few years ago but we are almost in 2024 and this major feature still hasn't been looked at. So I wanted to bring up the awareness again. 

We need the ability to phase and demolish room elements like you would with doors, walls, etc. As of now you really only have two options:

1: create a dummy annotation family that looks like you room tags and place them in the view. The cons of this are if you have multiple areas to work with you have to copy and paste them around. 

2: create a specific view that has its phasing set to Existing and create the rooms in that plan, then hide all your elements except for the rooms and the room tags. Then you can overlay that view over you demolition plan. This is a little better as you have actual rooms you can schedule if needed but then you run into the issue of fighting two views that are on top of each other. This can be fixed if you place your existing room view down first then the demolition view. 

I am not a fan of "workarounds" as they can get complicated and are a major time waster compared to if Revit could do things like this natively. 

[mhiserZFHXS]

Uh, why don't you just place rooms in the demo plan? You can even copy and paste rooms that aren't affected by demoed walls so you don't have to fill them out again.

And, while I understand why some people want rooms to have phases, I understand why Autodesk isn't jumping into it. This isn't a black and white issue. Adding phases to rooms would have a lot of consequences, some of which don't have obvious answers.

[david_loganYHWTG]

Idea: Room Phasing Parameters.

I've seen many issues about Room Phasing on the forums but not sure I've seen and actual request for the ability to phase rooms in the Revit Ideas yet. At the firm I work for, we deal a lot with existing institutional and hospital situations so there's a ton of demo work that we need to coordinate and schedule. Currently our work arounds are: creating a Room Schedule and adding rows of data depending on what we need to show (for example, existing room finishes, etc.) or the ol' Room "Copy-Paste" method. 

I'm not sure of Autodesk's reasoning here, but having a phase control parameter for everything except rooms makes no sense to me especially since we can also cross reference room parameters with other family types like doors, electrical fixtures, lighting, etc. 

Thanks,
Dave