Would it be possible to do this using Revit?

[karthur1]

Hello Revit Goup, 

I am not a Revit user (use Inventor 90% of the time).  I have seen some great looking works that others have done with Revit.  Most of what I have seen is along the lines of architectural.  I am looking at "possibly" starting to use Revit to draw a different product.... Grand_stands.

These projects all consist of the same components (Support footings and structural steel, Aluminum decking, Bench type seating or chair seats, Guard Fencing, Handrails, Ramps, Stairs....etc).

    

 What I am wondering is there tools in Revit that can do these right out of the box, or can it be customized to make drawing these more efficient than doing them in Autocad.  After the preliminary layout is complete, can Revit be used to produce the shop drawings for the steel fabrication and erection?

Thanks,

Kirk

[karthur1]

Hello Revit Goup, 

I am not a Revit user (use Inventor 90% of the time).  I have seen some great looking works that others have done with Revit.  Most of what I have seen is along the lines of architectural.  I am looking at "possibly" starting to use Revit to draw a different product.... Grand_stands.

These projects all consist of the same components (Support footings and structural steel, Aluminum decking, Bench type seating or chair seats, Guard Fencing, Handrails, Ramps, Stairs....etc).

    

 What I am wondering is there tools in Revit that can do these right out of the box, or can it be customized to make drawing these more efficient than doing them in Autocad.  After the preliminary layout is complete, can Revit be used to produce the shop drawings for the steel fabrication and erection?

Thanks,

Kirk

[Anonymous]

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@karthur1 wrote:

Hello Revit Goup, 

 After the preliminary layout is complete, can Revit be used to produce the shop drawings for the steel fabrication and erection?

Thanks,

Kirk

---

i think for this part you will need Advance Steel possibly

[Anonymous]

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@karthur1 wrote:

Hello Revit Goup, 

 After the preliminary layout is complete, can Revit be used to produce the shop drawings for the steel fabrication and erection?

Thanks,

Kirk

---

i think for this part you will need Advance Steel possibly

[karthur1]

Looks like that is an additional software that I woudl have to purchase.  I have the "Buidling Design Suite" that includes Autocad Structural Detailing.  From what I have read, ASD will import the Revit model.  Advanced steel looks to be more.... ummmm ... "Advanced".

[karthur1]

Looks like that is an additional software that I woudl have to purchase.  I have the "Buidling Design Suite" that includes Autocad Structural Detailing.  From what I have read, ASD will import the Revit model.  Advanced steel looks to be more.... ummmm ... "Advanced".

[DarrenP]

i am not a Revit User either

but this may be Revit and ASD

[DarrenP]

i am not a Revit User either

but this may be Revit and ASD

[karthur1]

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@DarrenP wrote:

..

but this may be Revit and ASD

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Not sure what you mean.

[karthur1]

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@DarrenP wrote:

..

but this may be Revit and ASD

---

Not sure what you mean.

[chrisplyler]

Certainly Revit can be used to model such things for architectural and even structural construction plans. I wouldn't recommend using it for shop drawings / steel detailing drawings though. You could, but It's going to be very clunky and cumbersom. There are much better products designed specifically for that.

[chrisplyler]

Certainly Revit can be used to model such things for architectural and even structural construction plans. I wouldn't recommend using it for shop drawings / steel detailing drawings though. You could, but It's going to be very clunky and cumbersom. There are much better products designed specifically for that.

[karthur1]

Much of the time consuming details is working out the design of the guards around the elevated areas. The guards may be horizontal or on an incline, such as on a ramp or stairs.  

I have seen demos where they quickly modeled handrailing of various styles.  Some with picket style vertical members and some with a more industrial style with jut two horizontal runs of pipe.  The guards on these systems are usually two horizontal pipes with chain link fence stretched between them.  Is it possible in Revit to customize the model for these type of guards?  If it is even possible, how difficult is it to make a custom handrail design?

I was thinking that the steel support structure could be detailed in Autocad Structrual Design (ASD) or Advanced Steel. I have ASD in a Building Design Suite.

Thanks

[karthur1]

Much of the time consuming details is working out the design of the guards around the elevated areas. The guards may be horizontal or on an incline, such as on a ramp or stairs.  

I have seen demos where they quickly modeled handrailing of various styles.  Some with picket style vertical members and some with a more industrial style with jut two horizontal runs of pipe.  The guards on these systems are usually two horizontal pipes with chain link fence stretched between them.  Is it possible in Revit to customize the model for these type of guards?  If it is even possible, how difficult is it to make a custom handrail design?

I was thinking that the steel support structure could be detailed in Autocad Structrual Design (ASD) or Advanced Steel. I have ASD in a Building Design Suite.

Thanks

[chrisplyler]

Sure, you can model railings in Revit. If you're going for representations that are good enough for architectural plans, it's easy enough. Well, when I say it's easy enough I mean you're going to spend twenty hours watching youtube videos and experimenting, but once you figure it out you'll be able to do what you want without it being too terribly annoying.

Getting into further detail though, such as - just for example - getting every baluster in the right location or creating families for several different attachment brackets for different conditions, is going to require even more learning curve.

And chain link fabric? I've never tried that before. Don't even know where to start.

[chrisplyler]

Sure, you can model railings in Revit. If you're going for representations that are good enough for architectural plans, it's easy enough. Well, when I say it's easy enough I mean you're going to spend twenty hours watching youtube videos and experimenting, but once you figure it out you'll be able to do what you want without it being too terribly annoying.

Getting into further detail though, such as - just for example - getting every baluster in the right location or creating families for several different attachment brackets for different conditions, is going to require even more learning curve.

And chain link fabric? I've never tried that before. Don't even know where to start.

[karthur1]

In one of these designs, the steel structure goes pretty quick.  Then I put on the decking and seating and last I put on the guards and finish out all the steps and ramps.  The steel is really the quickest/easiest part.  The rest of it takes alot of tweaking to get all the components to work right together.  Then I have to make the shop drawings for all the pieces.  I am doing all of it in Inventor right now.  I was hoping that Revit would be quicker/easier... but maybe not.  I want to explore it anyway and see if it could be useful for me.

I have installed Revit 2015 and I am truely starting from zero knowledge of it.  It looks pretty complex just from opening it for the first time and just clicking around in it.

[karthur1]

In one of these designs, the steel structure goes pretty quick.  Then I put on the decking and seating and last I put on the guards and finish out all the steps and ramps.  The steel is really the quickest/easiest part.  The rest of it takes alot of tweaking to get all the components to work right together.  Then I have to make the shop drawings for all the pieces.  I am doing all of it in Inventor right now.  I was hoping that Revit would be quicker/easier... but maybe not.  I want to explore it anyway and see if it could be useful for me.

I have installed Revit 2015 and I am truely starting from zero knowledge of it.  It looks pretty complex just from opening it for the first time and just clicking around in it.

[SteveKStafford]

If you are working for the manufacturer and already using Inventor to do this work I suspect that you are already using the appropriate tool for the job. Inventor is for products design/manufacturing and Revit is for Building design/construction. That's a gross oversimplification but it is still true. Revit is a bit more macro to Inventor's micro.

You build your product through various assemblies/parts that can have relationships and your modeling work can translate directly to your shop drawings. Revit can do similar things and it does have categories that relate to buildings but not as specific as your products components. This means most of your product would be assembled with various Revit families assigned to Structural, Generic, Specialty Equipment, Railing and possibly Stair categories.

You could certainly produce all the drawings required. You might find the differences in process frustrating if some of your process is pretty effective with Inventor now. I used to work for a manufacturer of theater rigging equipment. I could definitely do everything I used to do in AutoCAD with Revit for that work including providing shop drawings that put our equipment into play in the building. We sent AutoCAD files straight to a 3rd party CNC company to cut plate steel for us but I could still get that kind of output from Revit via export. Those files were pretty simple anyway.

Nothing wrong with learning Revit and seeing what it can do. If you didn't know Inventor and already do this work with it then I'd say you were just at a fork in the road and either path could get you where you need to go. You are currently at the end of one of the paths you could take at the fork in the road and considering going back to the the start of the other path.

[SteveKStafford]

If you are working for the manufacturer and already using Inventor to do this work I suspect that you are already using the appropriate tool for the job. Inventor is for products design/manufacturing and Revit is for Building design/construction. That's a gross oversimplification but it is still true. Revit is a bit more macro to Inventor's micro.

You build your product through various assemblies/parts that can have relationships and your modeling work can translate directly to your shop drawings. Revit can do similar things and it does have categories that relate to buildings but not as specific as your products components. This means most of your product would be assembled with various Revit families assigned to Structural, Generic, Specialty Equipment, Railing and possibly Stair categories.

You could certainly produce all the drawings required. You might find the differences in process frustrating if some of your process is pretty effective with Inventor now. I used to work for a manufacturer of theater rigging equipment. I could definitely do everything I used to do in AutoCAD with Revit for that work including providing shop drawings that put our equipment into play in the building. We sent AutoCAD files straight to a 3rd party CNC company to cut plate steel for us but I could still get that kind of output from Revit via export. Those files were pretty simple anyway.

Nothing wrong with learning Revit and seeing what it can do. If you didn't know Inventor and already do this work with it then I'd say you were just at a fork in the road and either path could get you where you need to go. You are currently at the end of one of the paths you could take at the fork in the road and considering going back to the the start of the other path.

[karthur1]

Steve,

Thanks for your comments.  Currently with Inventor, I have to model each individual piece so that I can create the shop drawings. It is very time consuming.  Many of the parts are very similar (L3x3 or L2x2 with holes in one or both legs) and have to fit with other parts so they can be bolted together.  It is all detail oriented. Yes with inventor, I can get right down to the micro level and actually see how each connection is made (hole size and placement). After the parts/weldments are modeled, then can then be put on a drawing sheet and dimensioned.

The way the workflow is with these systems, the owner usually wants to first see an overall layout.  They want to see seating plans, aisle placement, egress, Plan and section views......etc. Since Inventor is "detail oriented" in order to get this type of layout, I pretty much have to design everything first, just so I can get a layout. Kinda like the cart before the horse deal. So there is no "quick" layouts.

I was hopeing that with Revit, I could quickly do the overall layout. Then, I could use this layout to build the details and complete the design.

I am currently woking on a system.  Hopefully when I get it complete, I will have a little more time to learn the basics of Revit.

Thanks Again,

Kirk

[karthur1]

Steve,

Thanks for your comments.  Currently with Inventor, I have to model each individual piece so that I can create the shop drawings. It is very time consuming.  Many of the parts are very similar (L3x3 or L2x2 with holes in one or both legs) and have to fit with other parts so they can be bolted together.  It is all detail oriented. Yes with inventor, I can get right down to the micro level and actually see how each connection is made (hole size and placement). After the parts/weldments are modeled, then can then be put on a drawing sheet and dimensioned.

The way the workflow is with these systems, the owner usually wants to first see an overall layout.  They want to see seating plans, aisle placement, egress, Plan and section views......etc. Since Inventor is "detail oriented" in order to get this type of layout, I pretty much have to design everything first, just so I can get a layout. Kinda like the cart before the horse deal. So there is no "quick" layouts.

I was hopeing that with Revit, I could quickly do the overall layout. Then, I could use this layout to build the details and complete the design.

I am currently woking on a system.  Hopefully when I get it complete, I will have a little more time to learn the basics of Revit.

Thanks Again,

Kirk

[David_W_Koch]

Revit could be used for creating that initial model, showing the overall arrangement.  You would probably want to create families with a reasonable level of detail to represent major components (without the shop-drawing level of detail that the Inventor model has) to show the proposed arrangement, without worrying about the exact size of an angle component, or how many/what size/location of bolts and bolt holes, etc.

[David_W_Koch]

Revit could be used for creating that initial model, showing the overall arrangement.  You would probably want to create families with a reasonable level of detail to represent major components (without the shop-drawing level of detail that the Inventor model has) to show the proposed arrangement, without worrying about the exact size of an angle component, or how many/what size/location of bolts and bolt holes, etc.

[Anonymous]

This was a great answer to this question. On the answer given by David_Koch.

[Anonymous]

This was a great answer to this question. On the answer given by David_Koch.

[Anonymous]

Revit provides the tools to create Drafting Views, Detail Views and Assembly Views of the components and elements that you would need to create Grand Stands. There is a learning curve as was mentioned before. I am probably considered a Neophyte in Revit and I am still studying for my first Certification but, I can see that from my studies Revit does provide the tools to serve that purpose. There clearly would be some Family Creation going on for you for the custom components needed for such structures. You are essentially asking if Revit can give Drafting Views, Details Views, Assembly Views, Family Creation for Shop Drawings of a Ramp, for example. And the answer is yes...it can Detail a Ramp or Grand Stand. I would imagine that the Radial Array Tool would be put to great use as well as the Start End Radius Arc Tool. The Fencing may be a learning curve...as that would be a Railings and Balusters Concentration, and Stair By Sketch Tool....Columns and Bracing...but again yeah can be done in Revit.

[Anonymous]

Revit provides the tools to create Drafting Views, Detail Views and Assembly Views of the components and elements that you would need to create Grand Stands. There is a learning curve as was mentioned before. I am probably considered a Neophyte in Revit and I am still studying for my first Certification but, I can see that from my studies Revit does provide the tools to serve that purpose. There clearly would be some Family Creation going on for you for the custom components needed for such structures. You are essentially asking if Revit can give Drafting Views, Details Views, Assembly Views, Family Creation for Shop Drawings of a Ramp, for example. And the answer is yes...it can Detail a Ramp or Grand Stand. I would imagine that the Radial Array Tool would be put to great use as well as the Start End Radius Arc Tool. The Fencing may be a learning curve...as that would be a Railings and Balusters Concentration, and Stair By Sketch Tool....Columns and Bracing...but again yeah can be done in Revit.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

it's an interesting one.  

If you are hoping to use the 'automatic' tools in Revit such as stairs and handrails I wouldn't bother for something like this - it will just be a world of pain trying to get what you want.

I've done something similar in the past with a scaffold based demountable grandstand.  Each component was modelled as a Revit family and then assembled in a project.  It was relatively efficent and could be used to highlight issues with with construction as well as pulling off component schedules and settings.  However none of the families were really suitable for fabrication - I would agree that Inventor is much better suited to that.

So I guess in short, yes, it can be done but it very much depends on what your drivers are and what the exact outcome is that you are after.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

it's an interesting one.  

If you are hoping to use the 'automatic' tools in Revit such as stairs and handrails I wouldn't bother for something like this - it will just be a world of pain trying to get what you want.

I've done something similar in the past with a scaffold based demountable grandstand.  Each component was modelled as a Revit family and then assembled in a project.  It was relatively efficent and could be used to highlight issues with with construction as well as pulling off component schedules and settings.  However none of the families were really suitable for fabrication - I would agree that Inventor is much better suited to that.

So I guess in short, yes, it can be done but it very much depends on what your drivers are and what the exact outcome is that you are after.

[Anonymous]

Just working with the stair tool, beam tool and column tool. Definitely not up to your standards but with some more tweaking could add an accessibility ramp, stairs up the side of the bleachers, railings and chainlink fencing in the front of a raised landing that extends the entire front. 

[Anonymous]

Just working with the stair tool, beam tool and column tool. Definitely not up to your standards but with some more tweaking could add an accessibility ramp, stairs up the side of the bleachers, railings and chainlink fencing in the front of a raised landing that extends the entire front. 

[karthur1]

That looks promising.  Did you have to do much customizing or was that pretty much straight out of the box?

[karthur1]

That looks promising.  Did you have to do much customizing or was that pretty much straight out of the box?

[Anonymous]

No that is straight out of the box. I was just trying to see if I could get started on it...but definitely rough draft mode on that. I mean I did have to change the Stair Calculator Rules and adjust the Stair By Sketch Boudaries. There is more concentration on Stair Riser Heights for the seating that could be tweaked. Then going into some of the connectors that would be required, the rounded footings below the columns, and seats that would be all Family Editor work.

[Anonymous]

No that is straight out of the box. I was just trying to see if I could get started on it...but definitely rough draft mode on that. I mean I did have to change the Stair Calculator Rules and adjust the Stair By Sketch Boudaries. There is more concentration on Stair Riser Heights for the seating that could be tweaked. Then going into some of the connectors that would be required, the rounded footings below the columns, and seats that would be all Family Editor work.