Window does not keep its top frame width

[newurbanite]

I created a window using the Window family editor, then used Create Extrusion > Create , then placed Reference Planes, dimensioned the frame widths, then dimensioned the mullions equally, and locked the dimensions, then picked lines, offset them from the reference planes and trimmed the lines to create the mullions. This all worked, and when I loaded the window into the project, it loads ion fine at the dimensions/window size defined in the Family Editor, but if I change the window height in the project using Edit Type, the top frame widens and does not keep its width as defined in teh Window Family editor. I'm not sure what I missed, but I could use some advice. The window family file is attached. Thanks.

[ToanDN]

You need the fix the constraint of the muntins and one of the trim.  Right now if the Height changes, the muntins break very badly.  If the wall thickness changes, the trim doesn't move and it can be sit inside or floating out of the wall.

If I remember correctly, you create this window based on one of the OOTB family and that one is kind of a mess per se.  If I were you I would at least create a separate generic model family for the muntins and nest it in this window family. 

[newurbanite]

Creating a separate generic model family and nesting it in the window family sounds like a colossal waste of time. If mullions within the window family do not stretch correctly with the changing of overall window dimensions, why would I have any confidence that mullions within a nested generic model would? Furthermore, when creating the nested generic model, how do I account for the variability of the window size that the generic model will be nested in?

[ToanDN]

Using nested families is a legitimate workflow and definitely saves you time in the long run. You can associate parameters of the nested families to parameters of the parent family so they will flex the same way as they were built in the family. Constraining is much more easier with nested families because you don't have to worry about tons of dimensions. In the case of your muntins, you can reuse it for other window families, or door families instead of rebuild them allover again.

Nevertheless, if something does not flex properly in your family, it is constrained improperly. You need to fix it regardless of it being a built in object or a nested object.

[newurbanite]

OK - so how would I know if something is or is not constrained properly?

[ToanDN]

The basic rules of building a family:

1. Always creating the reference planes/lines (skeleton) first
2. Dimension them and label the dimensions with parameters
3. Go to the family type dialog and change the value for the parameters and make sure the skeleton flexing properly without any error warnings popping up
4. Build the geometry and constrain them to the skeleton.  Avoid constraining the geometry to each others as much as possible

[newurbanite]

This did not work - I'm lost. When I try to do all this, then go into the project and change the window dimensions, the mullions do not stretch with the window.

The instructions you give - do they apply to when I'm in the NESTED family (The generic model that I share and nest into the host window family), or when I'm in the host (window) family?

What is the "family type dialog", and which icons/commands do I need to click to get there? And do I go to this family type dialog when I'm in the nested family or the host family?

Do I build the geometry and constrain them to the skeleton in the nested family, or the host family?  And when you say "the skeleton" do you mean the extrusion that I created in the nested (generic model representing the mullions)? Because otherwise, I don't know what you mean by "skeleton".

It seems like we're speaking two different languages - I just need to know the sequence of commands that I need to go by, and which commands apply to which family (nested or host).

For your use, I have attached both the nested and the host families. It would be nice to know if there is a good instructional video o this subject that you could recommend. 

[ToanDN]

See the attached file.  I don't have time to make a screencast at the moment but you can dissect the family for now.  I only have like 10 minutes so I only looked at making the nested family work.  The rest are untouched.

To your questions:

Skeleton are the reference planes in your family.

Family type dialog:

[newurbanite]

I got into tyhe window family and opened up Family Types, and added Muntin Width and Muntin Height parameters under dimensions and made them EXACTLY the same as what you showed in your screenshot attachment - but the muntins still do not stretch with the window. See attachment for screenshot of Family Types that I created in the window family.

Are you sure this muntin stretching actually works at all - should I just create a whole new window family for every different size window I have in the project?

[ToanDN]

I will make a video. In the meantime, you should read on nesting parameters.

Before you think it doesn't work, why don't you open my family and add a few types with different Width and Height see if they work?

[newurbanite]

OK, I went ahead and read up on nested parameters. With that, I have more questions:

In the nested (generic model/mullions) family, do I have to Add a parameter that is exactly the same as each and every parameter that you showed in your screenshot. I ask this because I cannot find any reading material that is specific to nested mullion/generic model families nested into a host window family. 

[ToanDN]

You only need to create the parameters that you need to control in the parent family.

Below is a screencast of a simple window with a nested muntin family.  I created everything from a blank template for clarity.

[newurbanite]

I did load your family into my project and the stretching of the mullions with changing host window sizes did work - thank you.

The only problem is, I don't know WHY yours worked, and what you did to make yours work where the host/nested window family that I created did not.

I went into your nested mullion family and did not see any parameters listed under Family Types. So then, what is it that you did to make the mullions stretch dynamically? Because when I read the Autodesk.com "Associated Family Parameters" (see pasted URL) text tutorial earlier, it made it sound like the nested family needed to have the same type parameters as the host family. I'm very confused.

If the host window and nested family that you created worked and mine did not and I don't know what you did to make them work, then I haven't really learned anything, and still would not be able to create a new window family (i.e double hung) with properly dynamic mullions nested in. 

Also, the mullions and glass show up in the color grey - I tried to change that in the nested mullion generic family with no success - how do I change the mullion and glass color?