What is the correct workflow for paint and wall tiles layers (on walls and ceilings)

[Prvoime]

Example, interior walls have layers:
- paint
- plaster
- block
- plaster
- paint

Total thickness of the wall when dimensioned must be 20cm (even if it's slightly more or less, that's just how things are done here).
Easy, block 19cm (they really are 19cm, so that's great), and 0.5cm of plaster on each side. Done!
Material takeoff for blocks is in cubic meters, plaster is in squared meters, done!

But what about paint? How do I enter it in wall layers, and how do I get it in material takeoff (should be in squared meters). It has no thickness, but when I add it as a membrane layer it looks very wrong in the render.
You might say just use the same quantities as plaster, but what about when you have different types of paint?

And what about renderings? Do I just omit paint as a layer altogether and make the plaster look like paint? Then create different wall types for each type of paint?

Even worse, what about wall tiles? They actually do have some thickness, yet, in plans it's still expected that the wall be dimensioned as 20cm thick.
Do I place it as an actual layer on the wall and than just be careful where I dimension?

Same thing for ceilings, they off course have plaster on them, but that layer is not dimensioned.
Add it and be extra careful not to dimension to it?

[Prvoime]

Example, interior walls have layers:
- paint
- plaster
- block
- plaster
- paint

Total thickness of the wall when dimensioned must be 20cm (even if it's slightly more or less, that's just how things are done here).
Easy, block 19cm (they really are 19cm, so that's great), and 0.5cm of plaster on each side. Done!
Material takeoff for blocks is in cubic meters, plaster is in squared meters, done!

But what about paint? How do I enter it in wall layers, and how do I get it in material takeoff (should be in squared meters). It has no thickness, but when I add it as a membrane layer it looks very wrong in the render.
You might say just use the same quantities as plaster, but what about when you have different types of paint?

And what about renderings? Do I just omit paint as a layer altogether and make the plaster look like paint? Then create different wall types for each type of paint?

Even worse, what about wall tiles? They actually do have some thickness, yet, in plans it's still expected that the wall be dimensioned as 20cm thick.
Do I place it as an actual layer on the wall and than just be careful where I dimension?

Same thing for ceilings, they off course have plaster on them, but that layer is not dimensioned.
Add it and be extra careful not to dimension to it?

[Lachlan-JWP]

Revit 2022 has the option to change the visibility settings of Non-Core Layer of walls so you could set your block as the wall core and the 10mm of plaster as non-core layers. If you need to measure the block as 20cm then add a layer of substrate 0.5 thick to either side within the wall core. Hide the Non-Core Layers in plan and then add dimensions.

For wall tiles or other lining options you can add then to the wall assembly as you would for the plaster or you can model them as a separate wall, then align, lock, & join them to the wall structure. Which method you use will depend on the wall and your preferences.

As for showing the paint, you can use the paint tool & split face tool for this. When you schedule the areas you can use the Material: As Paint parameter to filter the paint area from the plaster area.

[Lachlan-JWP]

Revit 2022 has the option to change the visibility settings of Non-Core Layer of walls so you could set your block as the wall core and the 10mm of plaster as non-core layers. If you need to measure the block as 20cm then add a layer of substrate 0.5 thick to either side within the wall core. Hide the Non-Core Layers in plan and then add dimensions.

For wall tiles or other lining options you can add then to the wall assembly as you would for the plaster or you can model them as a separate wall, then align, lock, & join them to the wall structure. Which method you use will depend on the wall and your preferences.

As for showing the paint, you can use the paint tool & split face tool for this. When you schedule the areas you can use the Material: As Paint parameter to filter the paint area from the plaster area.

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

@Prvoime 

See reply below in Red

---

@Prvoime wrote:

Example, interior walls have layers: paint/plaster/block/plaster/paint

Total thickness of the wall when dimensioned must be 20cm (even if it's slightly more or less, that's just how things are done here). Easy, block 19cm (they really are 19cm, so that's great), and 0.5cm of plaster on each side. Done! Material takeoff for blocks is in cubic meters, plaster is in squared meters, done!

But what about paint? How do I enter it in wall layers, and how do I get it in material takeoff (should be in squared meters). It has no thickness, but when I add it as a membrane layer it looks very wrong in the render. 

1. Paint you usually apply in the model (easiest and quickest) 
   • 
2. It can also be done using loadable
   • loadable components such as wall based or line based generic models (in such case Paint can be applied to faces of extrusions and parameterized)
   • wall sweeps
   • and/or curtain panels to account for both paint and/or an additional layer  of tiles on renovation projects for instance

You might say just use the same quantities as plaster, but what about when you have different types of paint? If you apply it straight into the model using paint tool , all you do is split face and apply a different paint to same surface...then filter schedule using Material: As Paint

             

And what about renderings? Do I just omit paint as a layer altogether and make the plaster look like paint? Then create different wall types for each type of paint? Painting using the paint tool could/might make things less complicated 

Even worse, what about wall tiles? They actually do have some thickness, yet, in plans it's still expected that the wall be dimensioned as 20cm thick. Many options (too many to generate GIFs for in one post/reply):

• Either make several wall types each with a tile finish
• Or Convert the wall to parts and only change the material of the finish layer 
• Or create 1 generic wall type with tiles layer...then create several Tile material and their corresponding Material assets (red/blue/green/white/black) for the various colors  or various bumps which you again apply as paint

Do I place it as an actual layer on the wall and than just be careful where I dimension? See previous 

Same thing for ceilings, they off course have plaster on them, but that layer is not dimensioned.
Add it and be extra careful not to dimension to it?

---

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

@Prvoime 

See reply below in Red

---

@Prvoime wrote:

Example, interior walls have layers: paint/plaster/block/plaster/paint

Total thickness of the wall when dimensioned must be 20cm (even if it's slightly more or less, that's just how things are done here). Easy, block 19cm (they really are 19cm, so that's great), and 0.5cm of plaster on each side. Done! Material takeoff for blocks is in cubic meters, plaster is in squared meters, done!

But what about paint? How do I enter it in wall layers, and how do I get it in material takeoff (should be in squared meters). It has no thickness, but when I add it as a membrane layer it looks very wrong in the render. 

1. Paint you usually apply in the model (easiest and quickest) 
   • 
2. It can also be done using loadable
   • loadable components such as wall based or line based generic models (in such case Paint can be applied to faces of extrusions and parameterized)
   • wall sweeps
   • and/or curtain panels to account for both paint and/or an additional layer  of tiles on renovation projects for instance

You might say just use the same quantities as plaster, but what about when you have different types of paint? If you apply it straight into the model using paint tool , all you do is split face and apply a different paint to same surface...then filter schedule using Material: As Paint

             

And what about renderings? Do I just omit paint as a layer altogether and make the plaster look like paint? Then create different wall types for each type of paint? Painting using the paint tool could/might make things less complicated 

Even worse, what about wall tiles? They actually do have some thickness, yet, in plans it's still expected that the wall be dimensioned as 20cm thick. Many options (too many to generate GIFs for in one post/reply):

• Either make several wall types each with a tile finish
• Or Convert the wall to parts and only change the material of the finish layer 
• Or create 1 generic wall type with tiles layer...then create several Tile material and their corresponding Material assets (red/blue/green/white/black) for the various colors  or various bumps which you again apply as paint

Do I place it as an actual layer on the wall and than just be careful where I dimension? See previous 

Same thing for ceilings, they off course have plaster on them, but that layer is not dimensioned.
Add it and be extra careful not to dimension to it?

---

[Prvoime]

@RDAOU  I think I'll go with sorta hybrid approach. In VAST majority of our schedules we don't need to specify hue of color or type of tiles. For those projects I'll just use one layer for both plaster and paint, since you never leave walls unpainted, and you never paint unplastered ones. Area for these two is almost always the same.

I can even keep them all as "Structure" in Core boundary so there is no mistake when dimensioning.

But for those special cases, where color hue or different type is required, paint faces works just fine, because I still get the full plaster quantity, and painted paint.

Thanks!

[Prvoime]

@RDAOU  I think I'll go with sorta hybrid approach. In VAST majority of our schedules we don't need to specify hue of color or type of tiles. For those projects I'll just use one layer for both plaster and paint, since you never leave walls unpainted, and you never paint unplastered ones. Area for these two is almost always the same.

I can even keep them all as "Structure" in Core boundary so there is no mistake when dimensioning.

But for those special cases, where color hue or different type is required, paint faces works just fine, because I still get the full plaster quantity, and painted paint.

Thanks!

[chubbard · Accepted solution]

We do our paint as above using the paint tool

Tile we us a sweep as its often not full height. We prefer this over unlocking wall layers, or splitting wall layers. That gets complex. 

The sweep goes into its own sub-category and is not shown in our floor plans per view template. Solves the dimensioning problem, but you can see it in the elevation and details 

[chubbard · Accepted solution]

We do our paint as above using the paint tool

Tile we us a sweep as its often not full height. We prefer this over unlocking wall layers, or splitting wall layers. That gets complex. 

The sweep goes into its own sub-category and is not shown in our floor plans per view template. Solves the dimensioning problem, but you can see it in the elevation and details 

[Prvoime]

@chubbard

Oh, I thought I'll do tiles that don't go all the way to the top as a separate wall (or don't start from the bottom), but having them as a sweep is an excellent idea! Thanks!

[Prvoime]

@chubbard

Oh, I thought I'll do tiles that don't go all the way to the top as a separate wall (or don't start from the bottom), but having them as a sweep is an excellent idea! Thanks!

[chubbard]

Because you can stack sweeps, you can also add bullnose, sanitary base or flush base into the sweep. 

We have a template profile that is 1/4" thick with a height parameter and a flush base, and one without a base. We then tack on our sanitary base as a separate sweep. 

FYI we do all of our wainscot with sweeps. sometimes 1 but often multiple for base, wainscot, chair rail etc. We assign them to a sub-category and turn it off in small scale views. Sometimes we assign the material, other times we paint the material. Depends on the project. 

[chubbard]

Because you can stack sweeps, you can also add bullnose, sanitary base or flush base into the sweep. 

We have a template profile that is 1/4" thick with a height parameter and a flush base, and one without a base. We then tack on our sanitary base as a separate sweep. 

FYI we do all of our wainscot with sweeps. sometimes 1 but often multiple for base, wainscot, chair rail etc. We assign them to a sub-category and turn it off in small scale views. Sometimes we assign the material, other times we paint the material. Depends on the project.