Theory dimension between columns.

[MahmoudAlcholbec]

Architect design columns
Theory dimension between columns.
The normal spacing among two columns is 5 meters or 16.40 feet. The maximum spacing among two columns is 7.5 meters or 24 feet. (Since 1 meter is similar to 3.28084 feet). The minimum spacing among two columns is 2 to 3 meters or 5 to 7 feet.
Is there a Theory when Architects design columns?

[RPTHOMAS108]

Always thought it was the job of the structural designer to design the columns and the job of the architect to say they don't want to see any columns.

When there are columns look up, what do they support? How far can it span and for what structural depth? Is there a partition we can hide a line of columns in? Those are the main considerations for spacing no?  There may be other considerations such as in car parking levels where you want the column at the back of the parking bay for visibility and that extends the span (parking bay length + road width + parking bay length).

There is no max/min as far as I'm aware, obviously there are practical limits and placing columns too close together will complicate your foundations solution. You go from having standardised designs for isolated pads to one of a kind raft designs (covering a fewer number of columns).  Some designers overcomplicate their own existence through bad early stage planning.

[RDAOU]

@MahmoudAlcholbec 

Depends on the Projects...SOme projects the Architect takes lead of the design on other projects the Structural takes the lead

Office/Residential buildings, it is usually the architect who sets the concept and the preliminary/envisaged (Obvious) Structural Elements....The Structural engineer takes that and develops it. If what the architect had in mind does not work, the job of the structural is to come back to the architect with proposals that could work and at the same time respect the Architectural Design intent.

As for the normal spacing and min/max you mentioned, these are not norms...spans on such buildings can even go up to 15m...nothing is not possible

[MahmoudAlcholbec]

@RPTHOMAS108 

If structural designers suggest 16 feet between two columns. but columns will appear in the building. the job of structural designers is done because they design buildings for safety not for the shape of beauty.
What Architects will go to accept that? of course not.
What is a solution in this scenario,?

[RPTHOMAS108 · Accepted solution]

There are multiple design criteria the critical one is often serviceability for long spans.

The hypothetical you state should be resolved through design coordination between the whole team. The structural designer that suggests 16ft and stops at that isn't respecting the requirements of others. They can't design in isolation ignoring what everyone else needs, they all need to come up with a solution together. They need to highlight what their design is based on that leads to that and look at how the design inputs can be adjusted. Perhaps they can have a deeper structure (reducing headroom), perhaps the usage can be restricted to specific category to reduce the loading, perhaps the finishes can be reduced. Everyone has inputs and outputs for their design.

Experience will tell you what works and where the design will go at the detailed stages. In theory we shouldn't have to design because we've done the same design numerous times. We do the design just to prove that experience we have is right. 

[MahmoudAlcholbec]

Okay, in this case, Architects must define dimensions between columns because the shape of beauty for building specialty of Architect no Structural engineer

[RPTHOMAS108]

Perhaps as a starting point because we all need a starting point. However the structural designer/consultant can suggest preferable alternatives that may also be suitable. They draw from their superior experience of structural design to reduce the number of columns/cost etc.

Also the discussion here is probably regional specific. In the UK they do a lot of design build contracts and in such you often take the design to a certain stage forming employer's requirements. Then later they may be appointed by the contractor to work as their designer. Could also be appointed by the client to monitor the design. It may also be that one of the original design team members (including architect) isn't appointed at the later stages. So whatever happened at the early stages gets changed anyway (contractor's design fulfilling employer's requirements). 

[ToanDN]

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@MahmoudAlcholbec wrote:

Okay, in this case, Architects must define dimensions between columns because the shape of beauty for building specialty of Architect no Structural engineer

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Seriously?  This should be discussed collaboratively amongst your project team, not on a Revit forum.

[MahmoudAlcholbec]

@ToanDN 

Why you are angry about my question?

[RSomppi]

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@MahmoudAlcholbec wrote:

@ToanDN 

Why you are angry about my question?

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Why do you assume he's angry?

[MahmoudAlcholbec]

I think using software Autodesk Robot Structural Analysis Professional. Results - Reactions- Displacements - Deflections - Forces - Stress - Diagram for members - Maps for members.
There are no limitations under potential cases.