Revit workflow and Question Mark Symbols appearing ?

[kevincoffey]

All,

We are currently using the following workflow on a project:

• Each level of the project is a separate revit file and contains the geometries of the project
• All levels are linked together into a main model
• The linked main model is used for tagging elements and for creating all sheets

Our separate level models contain a lot of different components with high detail so we wished to keep them at a workable size (between 150 and 250MB). The linked main model is then only required for creating sheets and tagging the elements in them - in this case, room drawings (room plan, elevations & schedules).

This process was working perfectly with 1-2 users (because they never worked on the same items) but as we increased the team size, things have started getting complicated and errors are appearing. The process is based on individuals working on specific rooms individually on a specific level, then entering the main model and completing the tagging and sheet, i.e. each user on the project is working from start to finish and room by room, rather than one user completing all the rooms and another user completing all the sheets.

Please see the image below for how things are going wrong - specifically, tags being correct and then reverting to questions marks symbols (?). This issue stems from users synchronizing to central and other user's tags appearing in their model - however their linked geometry does not update so the tags cannot link correctly.

Our only correction at the moment is either:

1. For only one user to be in the linked main model at any point in time, or, 
2. If multiple users are in the model to reload all links before hitting sync to central (this takes a long time - similar to opening a large file in revit)

Have any other users come across this issue before? Is it a workflow thing or is there a better way?

Thanks,
Kevin

[cbcarch · Accepted solution]

Tagging linked models is not a good practice ( in my experience). It "works" sometimes, but is just not reliable. Better to Sheet and Annotate in the live models.

This sounds like a very large project-- how many stories/levels? Normally on smaller jobs, I would never suggest using linked models for each Level--

it just creates a bunch of unwanted/unneeded complexity--including the bad results you are having.

I've worked on 12-20 story towers, with a single "shell/core" Arch model. MEP and Structural were Links. Interiors was a Linked model. (This is where we had issues with annotations via links). We actually found it better to put the Interiors content live in the Arch model--using worksets and filters for visibility control.

Linked files are really intended for multi-discipline's models, and perhaps having a Site Model, with multiple building linked into it using Shared Coordinates, in a campus situation. Linking each Level into a Master model can work--but it can also create more problems than it's worth versus a single model with all Levels in it--you just need to manage Warnings carefully to control performance. File size does not always mean slow performance. A "clean" large model,

500MB or larger can run faster than a " sloppy" smaller model.

The more links you have, the more Revit has to "think" when perfoming even simple operations. It also has to load / save everytime you STC or open the main model. Don't try using Revit like AutoCad with Xrefs. They are NOT the same idea.

[kevincoffey]

I think that we are coming to a similar conclusion here regarding linked models - we took our precedent from another project but this was managed by a very small team so they didn't have similar problems.

The building is four storey's (~50,000 sqft/floor) but the level of detail extends to switches on plugs in the rooms. Currently the individual level files are 150-250MB with less than 25% of the rooms populated in the buildings. While we are at 25% population in this project, we are trying to create a workflow that would also work for projects that require 100% of the rooms populated. I understand what you mean regarding XREFs but we felt that breaking down models would make the individual levels much easier for geometry creation, while the tagging was a much less intensive process.

We may move to annotating and creating sheets into the individual files eventually to avoid the issues that we are facing. We just presumed that Revit would keep the tags and assume that an underlying geometry would appear in the next reloading of the links. Possibly that an Audit would search from any untagged elements and change them to question marks afterwards.

Thanks,

Kevin

[chrisplyler]

But the four level files have most of the loaded families in common, right? A single file wouldn't be nearly as big as the total of four separate files. I mean every family would only be loaded once.

[kevincoffey]

chrisplyler, you are correct - there are common components across the floors so this would definitely reduce the file sizes. 

There are always these issues when getting involved in a project after certain decisions have been made!

Thanks,

Kevin

[DTND]

@kevincoffey, did you eventually change your workflow for this issue?

We have setup a combined trade penetration annotation model like this too. We initially tested it to ensure 'reload latest' link was retaining the annotations & tags. Which it did. But now we are seeing intermittent views annotations disappearing for the whole view & tags reverting to the 'question mark'.

Could you please share what you ended up doing?? We have only done 4 levels of a 19 storey precinct.. we do not want to redo or lose any more work. Thanks in advance.

Regards, DTND

[kevincoffey]

We combined everything into a single model in the end so that we were tagging on the same model as the components, i.e. not a linked model.

However, I don't know if they have made any updates to this workflow since Revit 2016. I think you could possible have components in a linked file but you would need the associated sheets and annotations in that file as well.

One other way around it (though not really workable) - all tagging to be completed at the end of the project. The issue really is around adding items, tagging them and syncing. As long as you can guarantee that everybody has loaded in a linked model with all the components, you can tag without fear of them becoming '?'. The issue is when people have linked models with old information/missing new components and then syncing. The linked model doesn't sync while the Revit model imports the annotations tags.

[DTND]

yes.. thought that would be the only path you can take. Annotate in the file that element is modelled in. Strangely with our testing it only affected plan views, not sections. But only certain plan views. We cannot pinpoint exact reason for the unhosting of tags, given the element was not updated in the last sync.

Seems buggy at best.

Regards, DTND