Renovation project: design options and phasing

[Anonymous]

Hi everybody,

I've done some research on the net and in this forum but I don't seem to find all the answers I'm looking for. 

I basically have a renovation project, with the common existing (demolished) and new construction phase. However, the way the project is set is that I'd need to show 3 no. potential layouts to the client to start with. See list below:

1. Changes > necessary as minimum requirements following the building regulations.
2. Changes > advised as part of a light (cheap) renovation project.
3. Changes > to enhance all the aspects of the project and add value to the property. 

Considering this is not a massive building (medium size apartment located on 2 floors), I was thinking to get the above shown using design options. Any other suggestions?

Once the above is done and either options 2 or 3 gets selected (for option 1 I won't need to produce any specific new layout - just spec), I'd need to monitor the site works in order to produce a report for the progresses and relative payments. Usually, for a project like this I tend to split the site works in 5 phases. Is the phasing the best tool to deal with such a way of progress monitoring? Before starting to create new phases and get to a point where it all becomes too difficult to manage, I wanted to ask you guys if there is a better way to deal with that. 

If the above is the best way, once created all the phases I imagine I'll have to apply those phases to the elements I'm going to model. Doing that I'll have the possibility to use filters in the views that I will then use to monitor the progresses. 

I hope I've been clear enough to let you understand what I am after. Any suggestion would be warmly welcome!

[hmunsell]

Design Options seem the logical choice. use your Options Sets as well as Options to help organize it. your option sets would be your 3 change's, then in each set you could have options for that change. once you have settled on one you can Accept Primary for that Option Set. 

having multiple options/sets will mean duplicate work in the file. same element can not exist in multiple Option Sets. your file size will get larger until you accept your primary(s).  

[Anonymous]

Hello!

Thanks for your feedback. I was pretty sure that the design options was the best method to use regarding the layout proposals. 

Any advice on my enquiry about the phasing and how to manage the site work progress?

[hmunsell]

I'm not sure the need of the 5 phases. once the Design options are set and accepted, what Phases would you need besides Existing and New Construction. Demo is controlled by Phase filters (i.e. existing to be demolished during new constructions, etc...) most other things I would control thru Schedules. I guess I don't understand the "produce a report for the progresses and relative payments" part :-).

[HVAC-Novice]

"with the common existing (demolished) and new construction phase."

Demolishing typically happens in the "new construction" phase. The existing would include what is there before your project happens. New construction includes what you demo, and what you add. 

[RDAOU]

Design options is definitely the right approach (not sure whether the changes related to statutory regulations are an option 🙂 usually they are mandatory)...However; Phasing in Revit is not relevant to and should not reflect construction sequencing and/or scheduling....if you do that you will definitely end up with a mess of phases in the model.

You need to do that using Navisworks/RIB iTWO or a similar combination

[martijn_pater]

Design options for sure, that's what its for.

You could probably create project parameter(s) for progress/sequence tracking info, and create view filters based on those also. I suppose you could use phasing, but it only compares changes to a previous phase so you could show newer vs new but not newest vs existing ie. You could combine phases again then but that kind of defeats the purpose. It could also be interesting perhaps to save selection sets for your sequencing purposes, you can also use those in view filter.

[Anonymous]

To summarise: design options is the way to go. And that's something I was pretty sure about. Thanks for confirming guys!

Martijn, could you please expand a bit on the parameters for progress/sequence tracking? That could be interesting and it might worth a test. Thanks.

[martijn_pater]

If you go to manage --> project parameters --> add
You can add a project parameter to selected categories. ie. if you want to add a parameter to your walls (select wall category), call it "subphase" if you will, type of parameter text, group under phasing, instance parameter. If you click a wall in the project you will have this parameter available. You could add more and/or different parameters. If you select more (or all) categories the new parameter will be available for other categories aswell.

edit: you can also filter these elements for this "subphase" parameter and control how it shows in views and/or use it in schedules.

[RDAOU]

What you have described, is a workflow I have seen very few users trying to use in an attempt to produce a Revit animation similar/close to Navisworks' Timeliner simulation yet the results (form the few examples I have seen) were not that convincing.

Construction reporting goes side by side with the project's WBS, time line, activities Planned/Actual start and finish..etc. Hence, if for some valid reason on has no choice but to use ONLY Revit to produce construction reports, one still have to add time, cost and other parameters add to Dynamo in order to automate. Now, I am not sure if your suggestion is theoretical or if it is based on practical experience but if you say one could, sure one "always could" that among lots of other things which one doesn't really need to do. 🙂

The question remains, how feasible is it to work with the above when such reports are normally required on a biweekly and/or monthly basis (consultants) and Daily/Weekly/Monthly (contractors). There are several solution out there in the market that offer this and a lot more in term of 5D and 6D. 

[Anonymous]

I've just tried testing it and it seems to work fine. 

I've created 5 subphases, which is how the site works will be split and the progress for the payments checked. All I need to do now is apply that parameter to every item I model giving it the right subphase. Once done that, I can create schedules by subphase and see if the site works are on target. 

I'm sure there is a better way to do it but we don't use Navisworks for this specific project, and in Revit this is probably the best option I have...?!? 

[martijn_pater]

@Anonymous@RDAOUYou are correct to point that out. I have never used project parameters this way for a renovation project, just pointing at some Revit options there that seem preferable over using phasing to me in this scenario. It ofcourse always depends on the project requirements and parties involved. From the description it seemed like an option worth mentioning. But feel free to correct or steer me in the right direction any time. 🙂

[RDAOU]

@martijn_pater 

I had no intention to steer or correct; its just that your reply came to my post so I wasn't sure if it was a topic for discussion or an actual reply to the OP...anyways that was my opinion. I like experimenting when it comes to Revit but not when it comes to a point where I am selling a service to a client especially when it come to a Pure Revit solution...

One can do lots using the combination between Revit/Revit API/Dynamo with some python and C# knowledge. I have been asked a couple of times in the previous firm I worked with if we could develope something inhouse with Revit and dynamo to replicate something a plugin or software does (funnily enough also the Construction simulation). One of course CAN ALWAYS do and I know several teams who made out of this their core business but personally I would rather use a tested 3rd party solution with an excellent track record and give its authors the Credit instead of wasting my time trying to replicate their work.

Off topic example; on another forum thread someone was asking if there is a work around to color the window tabs introduced in 2019. I do not like the idea but yes one could develop a plugin replicating what Parallax already did...I would rather shell the 700$ for the solution offered by Parallax if you know what I mean..But again 🙂 this is only a personal opinion  

SO back to construction reporting and construction simulations...below is an example from RIB iTWO which is widely used here...I wouldn't want to improvise and experiment in any other software to replicate the output I get there

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing your opinion and also the video, which is brilliant btw!

The main problem I have in this specific case is that I am working as consultant setting up BIM/Revit standards for a small size studio that is new to Revit and that asked me if there was an easy (and cheap) way to track the site work progresses. That involves only Revit because they don't have the budget to buy other piece of software or plug-ins. I know it sounds weird but they have spent a quite fair amount of money in order to bring the studio up to speed with Revit and don't want to spend additional cash. Hence my original question about a way to simulate in Revit what could be done (in a much better way) with other software. Hope that clarifies. 

[RDAOU]

As consultant I believe you should advise them on how it is properly done (clarifying both technical and commercial impact) then give them alternatives (also technical and commercial aspects of those alternative)… Accordingly they, as a client can decide. Out of experience...to use RIB iTWO, ORCA, Navisworks or any 5D capable equivalent is more cost effective than trying to twist ones arms in Revit  not considering the level of accuracy and error which may come with it just to save 1000-1500$ subscription a Year!!! Time = Cost 

Don't forget as a Consultant you would be putting your reputation on the line too

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your precious advice. I agree with you 100%. 

Apart from the ones you've just mentioned, is there any other software or plug-in that could be used? Or those are the most common / best ones?

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

There are several...I can only recommend/speak of something I have tried and happy with.

1. Navisworks is an Autodesk Product which is included in the Architecture Engineering Construction package so that firm might have it and don't need to pay extra subscription
2.  RIB iTWO is from a different developer and I am sure it is pretty much affordable even for an individual. Alternatives for RIB iTWO would be  ORCA, BUZSSAW, Buildstorm ...Trimble has ConstructionJOB not sure if it is compatible with Revit(I haven't personally used any of those only heard about from colleagues and on forums)

[martijn_pater · Accepted solution]

You probably have a add-in or better software alternative for everything, however I thought you were looking for a method within Revit 🙂 ... since you mentioned it's for a relatively small project / "medium size apartment building". Anyway, yes, those are nice tools there posted by @RDAOU ofcourse. Hope all this helped you further anyway.

edit: The link below could be useful to you icw Navisworks
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/simplecontent/content/revit...

[Anonymous]

Cheers guys! I'll let you know how it goes.