Project base point clip removed in revit 2020.2

[Anonymous]

HI Team,

In Previous versions 2020.1, Project Base point clipping is enable and can be disabled. But in Revit 2020.2, the clip of the Project base point is not available.

The over all project can be moved to location with help of Project base point. But now it doesn't appear and there is no connection between the grids and Project base point.

Please answer if any purpose this is done. And Please explain.

Attached image for reference.

Thanks,

Pandiraj.AV

[dthirlwell]

Great response Steve.  This is the method we use as well (i.e. site model with linked building models).  One important thing to note as well is that this arrangement allows the Site model to use actual toposurface elevations AND utilize the Invert Elevation parameters built-in to Revit's pipes, which is dictated by the IO elevation. In the Site model the Level at the IO (default is Level 1) should be renamed to the relevant Vertical Datum (e.g. NAVD or NGVD) and then Building Models hosted above that datum (always above in FL at least) at a new Level 1.  The Building models should keep the Level 1 at the IO and use Shared Coordinates. As you said, this avoids many potential difficulties: particularly when we discover that the inverts don't work with the underground plumbing.  I found it bad form to have the IO at the datum level in the Building models because if it changes (or you have multiple instances of the same building) then you will get multiple/incorrect datums in the combined model and can be much more confusing than just using Shared Coordinates.

[SteveKStafford]

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@petebalf wrote:

However FWIW I really do think that having the two in the same project is the preferred way for smaller residential (and small commercial with no revit-using consultants) designers. i.e. 1 or 2 person offices.

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I started out with Revit doing residential work at a small firm and that's where and why I started using a separate site model. New houses never seemed to stay put on site...move over a little, rotate a little, move the ground floor up...no down a little.....sigh. At least existing houses don't get up and move to another part of the site...usually 🙂

I completely understand why people like to keep them together - pick your poison. Cheers!

P.S. annnnd yes it doesn't seem like a big task to have the developers allow a toposurface reference the IO or SCS?? It's an existing wish...for quite awhile.

[petebalf]

Steve,
Does the linking of the site allow you to adjust the topo heights of the site (with their true values) from within the host project?
cheers
peter

[SteveKStafford]

No, if the topo is in the site model and linked to the building you still have to do the site/topo editing in the site model. However the building is there so the frame of reference is intact while altering the topo you just can edit the building while working on site. But you can move/rotate/elevate the building in response to changes you consider on site.

I put on different hats when I switch between models, so to speak.

[Anonymous]

See next post

[Anonymous]

I think I understand, So now my question is. Can you point me to how to move the Shared Coordinate system to do the same as the old PBP pinned? As you said, the pin was making things confusing but that is what I learned. Now that its gone, not sure how to make Revit do the same thing. 

Architect moved the model location. I know crazy. But in the past I could move PBP pinned and all my views would moved to the new location with the PBP.  This is what the PBP pin did (I understand it was moving the Shared Coordinate system but that is how I used it)? Now without pin, I have to update the 100 views on all the sheets I have made. Is there a way to move the model and all the views like pinned did in the past?

[ToanDN]

Move the arch link in your model then acquire coordinates again?

[SteveKStafford]

Relocate Project does what moving a clipped PBP did.

[Igor.Varagilal]

Hi @SteveKStafford,

Hate to bring up the same issue, but I've just tried the 'Relocate the Project' tool and moved my PBP to a new location. I was expecting to have my PBP with the new coordinates and the model staying in the same position, (same as before, when moving the PBP while clipped) but that was not the case. Am I doing something wrong here? 

[SteveKStafford]

When the survey information has not changed and you need to move the building to a new location on the site then Relocate Project will do that. The building and related views will move relative to the site. You should find the site/survey origin position and coordinates won't change but the building's position relative to it will.

To know how it might have gone wrong you need to explain how you organized your project to begin with.

[Sandon-MADStudio]

Can you please explain how to do what you said here:

"Relocate Project. Nothing has actually changed in how it works...just reflects the reality of the PBP not really "doing anything" to the project's origin while clipped."

I used to be able to clip, move the base point from 0 to say, 100', and the whole project 'moved', so that elevations for the floor level would be 100' instead of 0'. How do I do that now without a clip on the base point?

[LPA-ID-ALopez]

Specify Coordinates at Point
[cid:image001.png@01D6A176.37BDD950]

[keri_salim]

I am jumping in here at the end of all of the replies/responses so if this has already come up I apologize.

I teach an Intro to Revit class at a Community College. We do a simple Site Plan using a 3D AutoCAD Contour drawing to create our toposurface. We've been doing this the same way for many years. We set the Project Base Point to 300' and create our points from the CAD dwg. We want the contours to display relative to Sea Level but want the Levels to read relative to the First Floor level at 0'-0", so after we label the contours we change the Elevation Base to Survey point. This has always worked until Revit 2020. I had a few students who could not get it to work correctly. After spending about a week searching on Google and various forums I finally was able to figure it out. For those student's drawings, the PBJ was above the default View Range (200') in the Site plan. I had to raise that up to 300' to see the Project Base Point Icon, select it, unclip it, right-click and "Move to Startup Location". Then I could select again, re-clip it and change it back to 300' and it was all good.

I was showing this to some of the students tonight (via Zoom) and I had one student who did not have a clip to unclip. I assumed that he just wasn't selecting it properly until I found this thread. His 2020 version must not have that option anymore. Because I have so many students running into this same issue, I'm assuming it is a 2020 version issue and will continue in other terms until we switch to 2021.

So, my question is, if they are taking the Clip option away, but I need to be able to unclip to Move the PBJ back to the Startup Position (it doesn't work unless it is unclipped), is there another way of doing this? Does anybody know? Or, can anyone tell me a better way to accomplish this scenario?

[SteveKStafford]

Keri.salim

Create the toposurface at the actual elevation, above the building. Move the toposurface down toward the building by the amount equal to the intended sea level elevation for the ground floor, for example if the ground floor is supposed to at 303' then move it down 303'. Now the surface has the correct relationship to the building.

In a Section or Elevation view use Manage > Position > Relocate Project and click on the ground floor level first and then move the cursor down by the same distance (303'). This repositions the shared coordinate system to place the Survey Point (SP) above the Project Base Point (PBP) by 303', the PBP will display -303 when selected.

Now place a Contour Label and change the Elevation Base parameter to Survey Point.

Assuming you need to edit the toposurface you'll find the point values are showing values relative to the project origin, they do that, no way to change that. If you want to alter the points using sea level values again move the toposurface back up by the same offset (303'), enter new values...move it back down.

Alternatively you could teach about linking models and Acquire/Publish Coordinates. Create a Site model with the toposurface at its actual elevation. Link a building model to the site and orient it to the site in plan view and then move it up to the correct ground floor elevation. The site model's levels are at "sea level" while the building model is at "project". Both are technically identical but the surface is at its real elevation and we move the building up for its proper context. Then use Manage > Coordinates > Publish Coordinates and select the building model.

Then the building model can link the site model using By Shared Coordinates. If you also rotate the building model in the site model you'll see this orientation in the building model too in any plan view that uses True North orientation.

[Anonymous]

Hi All,

I only discovered this recently and think this is a really bad tool removal. The purpose of the clip and unclipping is not to locate the site accurately, it is more if a project mid-documentation needs to shift for some site bound reason. 

Using the clip tool I could move a whole project down by a say a foot, then unclip and shift the site back, I could then just move any of my site related items. I have to do this right now and without this tool which I am used to relying on, I have to shift every single element on the project....... this could potentially affect all my documentation......

Really think this was short-sighted by the developers who decided to remove this tool. Currently, I cannot do this in my project using the relocate project tool, because we are working with shared coordinates.

What please provide a solution for how I might otherwise do this?

Thanks Chris

[dgbao]

Today I just relized this change. Because my project survey point coordinate is very large, if I use Relocate Project function, the distance is exceed Revit can supported ! I can only type coordinate to the PBP's properties. On revit 2020.2, if I type the coordinate to PBP, just the PBP move, not the whole model. 

[pfarias]

Saddly, it wasn´t a unuseful tool. It was much faster to relocate a project with editing the PBP than using the "Relocate Project"

[SteveKStafford]

Relocate Project tool/concept was introduced first. The PBP icon, and doing anything with it, was introduced much later.

[Anonymous]

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[ryann_muscaDGMCY]

I am having trouble adjusting the Project Base Point to comply with the setout BIM requirements which has been established years ago. The BIM requirements setouts provided a certain Project Base Point and Survey Point values that we need to adhere. We have try publishing and acquiring coordinates and even manipulating the project base point. It's has been a no success so far. I believe changing something that is working for many years is I believe going backward. There is no reason for it to be removed!