Problem with Plantings in Revit LT 2021 vs Revit LT 2019

[J_Lewis87]

I downloaded Revit LT 2021 today, thinking the realistic setting had improved over the same setting in 2019.  The architecture does look better -- ceilings that reflect light, brighter materials overall, etc.

However, the vegetation looks awful.  At best it looks burnt. At its worst the trees and shrubs appear black, and shadows like below the shrub are unrealistically dark. In 2019 LT the shadow is very soft as one can see in the right image.

What happened?!  Is it just my computer?  Has anyone else experienced this?  Any work-arounds?

[barthbradley]

They are two different shrubs and trees. 

[J_Lewis87]

The tree and shrub are identical across both versions. They look so different now, you are right to think the tree and shrub are different.

I opened a 2019 file, where the vegetation looked normal, in version 2021 and the trees went from normal to burnt.  I then loaded 2021's family library, thinking Autodesk had adjusted it for 2021, and then made the .jpg file. Clearly something has gone really wrong.

[barthbradley]

There is nothing wrong. There is something different though.  It's called Real-Time Realistic.  

https://blogs.autodesk.com/revit/2020/05/05/have-you-tried-real-time-realistic-views-in-revit-2021/#....

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2021/EN...

[barthbradley]

Are you sure those two trees are using the same Render Appearance?

 

Also, you have Graphic Display Options you can employ. 

[J_Lewis87]

Hey, barthbradley, thank you for your continued ideas.

1) The tree and shrub are identical in my examples -- Elm [Sapling][Fall] and Yew.

2) The Render Appearance Properties tab, at least in LT only has two options -- Cast reflections and Lockview, neither of which affects the color of the trees or shrubs.

3) I now see from your info that 2021 has a "Realistic" tab under "Graphic Display Options."  Its default is "Automatic."  I tried changing the various options but I still cannot match the appearance of the trees and shrubs in 2019. It 2019 LT the "Realistic" tab is called "Photographic Exposure."  The default is neither "Automatic" or "Manual" as it is in 2021 LT. Nevertheless checking either box in 2021 and matching the settings in 2019 do not make the trees/shrubs look like they once did.

4) I can see in the images at the Jeff Hanson article that the plantings behind the building have the same burnt appearance mine do.

So my conclusion is that Autodesk has decided to sacrifice the appearance of plantings within the realistic view, maybe because they feel no one needs them for presentation when rendering is available? Doesn't this defeat the reason for making the real time Realistic changes?  I did render the images on the LT "Cloud" option and the trees do look normal.  The color is bright and the details are back.

I guess it is what it is but Autodesk took a setting, that used to make decent renders, nonviable if planting appearance is important.  Realistic had been a good quick alternative to full Revit rending.

Thanks again, though!

[barthbradley]

Keep in mind that RPC content is NOT Autodesk. RPC content is Archivision proprietary content. Autodesk is just in partnership with Archvision.   If you are unhappy with the look of Archvision's RPC Content in Revit 2021, you should contact Archvision.  Maybe they sell 2021 content that looks "better" in 2021's Real-Time Realistic Views.  Still, this is such a subjective, non-scientific thing.  A "one man's junk, is another man's treasure" kind of thing.  Personally, I like the way the trees look in 2021.  More realistic-looking when placed in scenes that showcase architectural elements such as buildings and hardscape.  

https://archvision.com/

Best of luck to you.  

[J_Lewis87]

Thanks. I will reach out to Archivision.

I don't believe the change is as subjective as you think.  I did place the plantings among architecture and they look burnt, crispy and torched.  I could not present the 2021 version to a client even as a schematic. Again the trees and shrubs are identical in both views.

[barthbradley]

You cannot compare two different Renderings by just looking at them side by side - and especially when they are from different versions of the Software.   There are so many variables that control light and shadow and reflections and so on and so forth.  To me though, it looks like both Renderings need Post-Production work.  But, that my "subjective" opinion.  😉

[J_Lewis87]

Each realistic rendering is "out-of-the-box" and supposed to be quick visualization. Yes, post production work can change black torched trees and shrubs with a great amount of effort.

I mean, both are Revit's realistic setting. It's not like I'm trying to compare Revit to SketchUp.

I will see if I can get an answer from Archivision.

[barthbradley]

There is no such thing as an "OOTB" Realistic View or Rendering View.  

[J_Lewis87]

Imo, the left room image is 2019 "OOTB" I could print it and show it to my boss as a progress print. Sure I could tweak it a bit here and there but the furniture looks like furniture and the trees don't look like they were torched by an arsonist.

The room image on the right is 2021 "OOTB" but the trees and shrubs look like they've been torched and there is no easy way to get them to look like the ones on the left within Revit. If I try to lighten and saturate them, the room will glow like a furnace.

I see "OOTB" as the "Hidden Lines, Shaded, Consistent Colors and Realistic" tabs.  I thought the whole point of them is to create ready-to-view images without a lot of hassle. And doubly so for the changes made for 2021.

That said, the real rendering in 2021 outshines 2019 rendering.  Isn't that how it's supposed to be -- each year the imagery gets better, not worse?

[barthbradley]

I wasn't trying to rile you up, dude (or dudette).  I'm just stating a fact. There is no such thing as an "OOTB" Realistic View.  But, I don't disagree with you that the trees in your two screenshots look different from each other.  In fact, everything looks different in the two screenshots.   And yes, I would agree; the trees in the 2019 screenshot look prettier than the trees in the 2021 screenshot.  

We good now? 

[J_Lewis87]

Just a quick update since I've gotten some replies from Autodesk.

The burnt and torched appearance of plantings in Revit LT 2021 are what they are now offering for Realistic mode.  It is what it is. They mentioned "tone mapping" as an option but lighten a black tree using the exposure settings and the architecture goes blinding white.

So it's a toss up. Versions 2019 and 2021 have pros and cons. Neither is better than the other. I like how architecture renders in 2021 better. It's brighter like the light bounce on ceilings.  2019 can make better schematic sections and quick Realistic sketches.

[barthbradley]

So, they confirmed exactly what I told you above. 

[J_Lewis87]

They did but I wanted to underscore with them that they have an issue. Kind of odd that they'd ballyhoo changes to Realistic rendering and somehow miss that they singed the vegetation in the process.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I agree with jeffreylewispa on the quality of realistic view. The beautiful RPC tree in realistic view was once my revit sell point to client, but now after an update is just unbearable to look at. Same problem with all my sections using realistic view. And it's a serious issue for me since I can't downgrade this file that I've been working on for a week, unless if I spend the same amount of time to redo all my last week work in my last save 2020 version, and I still need to show the client the 3D realistic view every now and then - my only option is to hide all the RPC trees, otherwise it looks like unrecognizable black patchwork on my screen. 

So to me it's an issue that Revit should take into account, instead of telling the users to bear with this "configuration". Btw, I tried to modify all the render configuration possible and all the trees still has dark gren-ish and you definitely can't see the branch silhouette, so i don't think it is something we can adapt ourself as an user.

[pmartin]

completely agree... they should just update the tree textures...

[barthbradley]

You ought to email Archvision and let 'em know how you feel.  

[email protected]