Parameters Service - 'Collections'

[mike_engel]

The Parameter Service currently allows you to create a single collection associated with an account, for your company to organize and manage parameter definitions. For future development, we are considering expanding collections to enable more robust management workflows and support your design delivery needs.

Share your feedback in the comments and help teams at Autodesk understand how you would like to manage and organize your parameter definitions.

[mike_engel]

The Parameter Service currently allows you to create a single collection associated with an account, for your company to organize and manage parameter definitions. For future development, we are considering expanding collections to enable more robust management workflows and support your design delivery needs.

Share your feedback in the comments and help teams at Autodesk understand how you would like to manage and organize your parameter definitions.

[maciej-wypych]

Hi @mike_engel,

My feedback so far:

• There needs to be a "Set default hub" option in Revit for this. Most people, they'll like to have their own company cloud as a default if the active model is not saved in the cloud and set to the cloud of the active model if it is saved in ACC. Right now the list is random and showing me a cloud with an inactive project. For less experienced users this will be confusing and will cause more harm than good (because they'll add parameters from a wrong cloud/spend an hour trying to find the right parameter/create a parameter in a wrong cloud)
• If you click on the cogwheel in the list of columns in the list of parameters in ACC or Revit and try to add/remove a column, the page goes blank in ACC and the window goes blank in Revit. If you refresh the page in ACC, the parameter collection is gone, so you need to click on the "Create Parameter Collection" to get back to your list of parameters. In Revit you need to close the window and open again.
• Finally, the list of parameters for the company cloud in Revit needs to be loaded asynchronously on opening of Revit and load from the active model's cloud on opening / switching models. Right now it's over 10 seconds to open the list of my hubs, then I need to switch to my company hub, and wait 3-4 seconds to refresh.

I'm all up for this feature and will be great for maintaing consistency of parameters in projects, but for an average user, right now this feature would  add problems instead of resolving them.

[maciej-wypych]

Hi @mike_engel,

My feedback so far:

• There needs to be a "Set default hub" option in Revit for this. Most people, they'll like to have their own company cloud as a default if the active model is not saved in the cloud and set to the cloud of the active model if it is saved in ACC. Right now the list is random and showing me a cloud with an inactive project. For less experienced users this will be confusing and will cause more harm than good (because they'll add parameters from a wrong cloud/spend an hour trying to find the right parameter/create a parameter in a wrong cloud)
• If you click on the cogwheel in the list of columns in the list of parameters in ACC or Revit and try to add/remove a column, the page goes blank in ACC and the window goes blank in Revit. If you refresh the page in ACC, the parameter collection is gone, so you need to click on the "Create Parameter Collection" to get back to your list of parameters. In Revit you need to close the window and open again.
• Finally, the list of parameters for the company cloud in Revit needs to be loaded asynchronously on opening of Revit and load from the active model's cloud on opening / switching models. Right now it's over 10 seconds to open the list of my hubs, then I need to switch to my company hub, and wait 3-4 seconds to refresh.

I'm all up for this feature and will be great for maintaing consistency of parameters in projects, but for an average user, right now this feature would  add problems instead of resolving them.

[mike_engel]

There's a lot there, thank you @maciej-wypych for the detailed thoughts and responses.  

Curious about your expanded thoughts on different user persons adding and accessing the parameters.  Can you share more detail on who is typically authoring new parameters, who is adding them to models and who is not (they just work in Revit and want them to work)

[mike_engel]

There's a lot there, thank you @maciej-wypych for the detailed thoughts and responses.  

Curious about your expanded thoughts on different user persons adding and accessing the parameters.  Can you share more detail on who is typically authoring new parameters, who is adding them to models and who is not (they just work in Revit and want them to work)

[maciej-wypych]

---

Curious about your expanded thoughts on different user persons adding and accessing the parameters.  Can you share more detail on who is typically authoring new parameters, who is adding them to models and who is not (they just work in Revit and want them to work)

---

Hi @mike_engel,

Unfortunately, there is no straightforward answer to your question. This will largely depend on the organisation's size and user skills.

In smaller organisations, you may or may not have a dedicated person/people that manage shared parameters specifically and everyone can add, manage or use these parameters.

In medium-size organisations, you may have a dedicated BIM Manager that is responsible for managing the parameters but all users may be adding and using them as well. And that person would try to make sure that all parameters follow certain naming criteria or clean them up periodically.

In larger organisations, you'll have  BIM Leader/Office BIM Manager/Design Technology Manger... and that person/people will be managing the shared parameters for the organisation. These parameters would be used by the Content Managers or Project BIM managers to create specific content for the organisation or project.

However, there can be an exception to this rule, where there are Exchange Information Requirements or Asset Information Requirements defined by the client on a project that define certain parameters that selected elements to need to have. Then the Project BIM manager may need to add these to be used on a project. 

So within one ACC hub you may have then parameters that are defined for an organisation and multiple projects.

So, I believe there should be also an option to give access to specific parameters to specific projects so a user working in an ACC hub of organisation X doesn't add a parameter from Project A into Project B or to the family library used by the organisation X.

Hope that helps

[maciej-wypych]

---

Curious about your expanded thoughts on different user persons adding and accessing the parameters.  Can you share more detail on who is typically authoring new parameters, who is adding them to models and who is not (they just work in Revit and want them to work)

---

Hi @mike_engel,

Unfortunately, there is no straightforward answer to your question. This will largely depend on the organisation's size and user skills.

In smaller organisations, you may or may not have a dedicated person/people that manage shared parameters specifically and everyone can add, manage or use these parameters.

In medium-size organisations, you may have a dedicated BIM Manager that is responsible for managing the parameters but all users may be adding and using them as well. And that person would try to make sure that all parameters follow certain naming criteria or clean them up periodically.

In larger organisations, you'll have  BIM Leader/Office BIM Manager/Design Technology Manger... and that person/people will be managing the shared parameters for the organisation. These parameters would be used by the Content Managers or Project BIM managers to create specific content for the organisation or project.

However, there can be an exception to this rule, where there are Exchange Information Requirements or Asset Information Requirements defined by the client on a project that define certain parameters that selected elements to need to have. Then the Project BIM manager may need to add these to be used on a project. 

So within one ACC hub you may have then parameters that are defined for an organisation and multiple projects.

So, I believe there should be also an option to give access to specific parameters to specific projects so a user working in an ACC hub of organisation X doesn't add a parameter from Project A into Project B or to the family library used by the organisation X.

Hope that helps

[mike_engel]

No big surprises in those details. Thank you for sharing and this insight will be helpful to our teams as we look to mature the cloud parameters.

[mike_engel]

No big surprises in those details. Thank you for sharing and this insight will be helpful to our teams as we look to mature the cloud parameters.

[smichaudN26PG]

A few things, excited that this is a tech preview but few disappointments that I know will be addressed

• Shared Parameter File upload did not take Descriptions when uploaded
• There is more Data storage/application with the service than with the OOTB parameter file (Can this be rolled in to Revit SP txt structure?)
  • Properties Palette Group
  • Default Category Assignment
  • Appears to support new line(s) in Descriptions (at least in the editor they remain)
• Can't seem to delete parameters once uploaded from a file. 

As for access and who is working with them. the Account Admins are the ones who need master control. Would like to be able to set the default for BIM Manager Roles (or custom list of roles) in a Project to have reduced control and typical users should be able to pull parameters down but not edit/add. No mater the scale of the company this should help be flexible for the needs. 

[smichaudN26PG]

A few things, excited that this is a tech preview but few disappointments that I know will be addressed

• Shared Parameter File upload did not take Descriptions when uploaded
• There is more Data storage/application with the service than with the OOTB parameter file (Can this be rolled in to Revit SP txt structure?)
  • Properties Palette Group
  • Default Category Assignment
  • Appears to support new line(s) in Descriptions (at least in the editor they remain)
• Can't seem to delete parameters once uploaded from a file. 

As for access and who is working with them. the Account Admins are the ones who need master control. Would like to be able to set the default for BIM Manager Roles (or custom list of roles) in a Project to have reduced control and typical users should be able to pull parameters down but not edit/add. No mater the scale of the company this should help be flexible for the needs. 

[dave_fagerstrom]

The descriptions should be preserved when uploading from a shared parameters file.  There are a few instances where the system didn't like certain control characters and rejected the descriptions in our recent testing.   We will have a fix for this soon, and I'll confirm that valid descriptions are uploading from the text file as expected.  

Deletion/Archiving of parameters should be coming soon as well. 

As a note, when you upload parameters from an existing Revit model, the PPG, Categories, and type/instance selection will be automatically applied based on the selections in the model.  

[dave_fagerstrom]

The descriptions should be preserved when uploading from a shared parameters file.  There are a few instances where the system didn't like certain control characters and rejected the descriptions in our recent testing.   We will have a fix for this soon, and I'll confirm that valid descriptions are uploading from the text file as expected.  

Deletion/Archiving of parameters should be coming soon as well. 

As a note, when you upload parameters from an existing Revit model, the PPG, Categories, and type/instance selection will be automatically applied based on the selections in the model.  

[smichaudN26PG]

Great to hear! Excited to see the updates and can't wait for this to maybe be something I can call with the API and or Forge 🙃

I have been trying to find documentation on what specifical characters or formatting is allowed with Descriptions as well.

Out of curiosity if we rename our ACC company hub (company merger) will this update the parameter summary from the mouse over in Revit that says it's from Parameter Service "Company Name on ACC"?  

[smichaudN26PG]

Great to hear! Excited to see the updates and can't wait for this to maybe be something I can call with the API and or Forge 🙃

I have been trying to find documentation on what specifical characters or formatting is allowed with Descriptions as well.

Out of curiosity if we rename our ACC company hub (company merger) will this update the parameter summary from the mouse over in Revit that says it's from Parameter Service "Company Name on ACC"?  

[dave_fagerstrom]

Hi smichaudN26PG, 

For the case of a merger, ACC should update as usual.  In any instance where the parameters are pulled down after the merger, they should display the new naming for the company. 

However, parameters that are already loaded into Revit projects/models will still have their existing values.    In this instance I'd suggest creating a new template post-merger (you'll likely be collaborating on new standards anyway), and pulling in the parameters from the service to the template, which would display the new company name.   

Existing projects that were started under the old company will keep that record, which in some instances may be preferable.  

[dave_fagerstrom]

Hi smichaudN26PG, 

For the case of a merger, ACC should update as usual.  In any instance where the parameters are pulled down after the merger, they should display the new naming for the company. 

However, parameters that are already loaded into Revit projects/models will still have their existing values.    In this instance I'd suggest creating a new template post-merger (you'll likely be collaborating on new standards anyway), and pulling in the parameters from the service to the template, which would display the new company name.   

Existing projects that were started under the old company will keep that record, which in some instances may be preferable.  

[Simon_Weel]

The concept could do with some more explanation?

I take from the Youtube video it's all about Shared Parameters. IMO, Shared Parameters are a cumbersome solution for one of Revit's biggest fundamental problems - the (lack of) connection between Families and Project. For the average  Revit user, the Shared Parameter concept is hard to grasp. And if you don't lock down the creation of Shared Parameters, you'll end up with multiple Shared Parameter files, all containing the same parameter names, but with different GUID's. Messy at best. I don't see any benefit bringing this crippled concept to the cloud?

Instead, I would focus on creating a proper way connecting Families to Project....

Simon

[Simon_Weel]

The concept could do with some more explanation?

I take from the Youtube video it's all about Shared Parameters. IMO, Shared Parameters are a cumbersome solution for one of Revit's biggest fundamental problems - the (lack of) connection between Families and Project. For the average  Revit user, the Shared Parameter concept is hard to grasp. And if you don't lock down the creation of Shared Parameters, you'll end up with multiple Shared Parameter files, all containing the same parameter names, but with different GUID's. Messy at best. I don't see any benefit bringing this crippled concept to the cloud?

Instead, I would focus on creating a proper way connecting Families to Project....

Simon

[dennis_collin]

Interesting preview feature BUT!!! Help Implies Parameters from cloud can be used for Revit TAGs 

But button is missing from Add Label dialogue and/or ribbon?

Will this be addressed in a point release? Alternatively is it possible to get the cloud service to build a Shared P file locally (would be an OK workaround) 

[dennis_collin]

Interesting preview feature BUT!!! Help Implies Parameters from cloud can be used for Revit TAGs 

But button is missing from Add Label dialogue and/or ribbon?

Will this be addressed in a point release? Alternatively is it possible to get the cloud service to build a Shared P file locally (would be an OK workaround) 

[mike_engel]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've noticed this gap 😞
We are in the process of getting this resolved in upcoming updates to Revit.

Additionally, we're also continuing to look at new capabilities to grow this service. Check out our feedback portal to offer your votes in what to prioritize and submit ideas on where we should go next. https://portal.productboard.com/rxbrhrzq3gh17rnu6urmxxps

[mike_engel]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've noticed this gap 😞
We are in the process of getting this resolved in upcoming updates to Revit.

Additionally, we're also continuing to look at new capabilities to grow this service. Check out our feedback portal to offer your votes in what to prioritize and submit ideas on where we should go next. https://portal.productboard.com/rxbrhrzq3gh17rnu6urmxxps

[Jason_Peckovitch]

 I see "Collections" as smaller groups of parameters that can be selected and added to Families when someone downloads something to use on their project instead of hunting for the parameters they need. This Parameters Service should also be integrated into the modify a parameter that can be replaced from the service as well.

[Jason_Peckovitch]

 I see "Collections" as smaller groups of parameters that can be selected and added to Families when someone downloads something to use on their project instead of hunting for the parameters they need. This Parameters Service should also be integrated into the modify a parameter that can be replaced from the service as well.

[Chad-Smith]

I didn't see this thread until after I put all my comments on Collections over in the Management thread.

I feel the below previous statement sums up my issues coming from a GC's perspective who needs to deal with asset parameters. I can summarise what I wrote over in the Management thread here in two statements:

1. Collections should always be approved for project use.
2. Collections should be able to be Bridged between accounts.

---

@maciej-wypych wrote:

---

However, there can be an exception to this rule, where there are Exchange Information Requirements or Asset Information Requirements defined by the client on a project that define certain parameters that selected elements to need to have. Then the Project BIM manager may need to add these to be used on a project. 

So within one ACC hub you may have then parameters that are defined for an organisation and multiple projects.

So, I believe there should be also an option to give access to specific parameters to specific projects so a user working in an ACC hub of organisation X doesn't add a parameter from Project A into Project B or to the family library used by the organisation X.

---

[Chad-Smith]

I didn't see this thread until after I put all my comments on Collections over in the Management thread.

I feel the below previous statement sums up my issues coming from a GC's perspective who needs to deal with asset parameters. I can summarise what I wrote over in the Management thread here in two statements:

1. Collections should always be approved for project use.
2. Collections should be able to be Bridged between accounts.

---

@maciej-wypych wrote:

---

However, there can be an exception to this rule, where there are Exchange Information Requirements or Asset Information Requirements defined by the client on a project that define certain parameters that selected elements to need to have. Then the Project BIM manager may need to add these to be used on a project. 

So within one ACC hub you may have then parameters that are defined for an organisation and multiple projects.

So, I believe there should be also an option to give access to specific parameters to specific projects so a user working in an ACC hub of organisation X doesn't add a parameter from Project A into Project B or to the family library used by the organisation X.

---

[Chad-Smith]

@mike_engel I'm also interested in whether the Parameter Service will work in with Tandem's proposed 'Parameter Set Library'?

The slightly different terminology used (Sets vs Collections) suggests that there might not be any cross-product communication? 

[Chad-Smith]

@mike_engel I'm also interested in whether the Parameter Service will work in with Tandem's proposed 'Parameter Set Library'?

The slightly different terminology used (Sets vs Collections) suggests that there might not be any cross-product communication? 

[mike_engel]

The Parameters project is built to be reused. Today we have released integrations with Revit and ACC. We are always on the lookout for opportunities to integrate and support your parameter definitions across the products you use to deliver projects. I can assure you there is a variety of conversations, though terminology across workflows is one of the largest challenges to acknowledge and resolve.

In addition to how we can leverage this capability more widely, we are also actively interested in 3rd parties who share a need for standard data definitions. Recently the Parameters API was released in Beta at https://aps.autodesk.com/autodesk-parameters-api-cover-page to extend and integrate additional solutions.

[mike_engel]

The Parameters project is built to be reused. Today we have released integrations with Revit and ACC. We are always on the lookout for opportunities to integrate and support your parameter definitions across the products you use to deliver projects. I can assure you there is a variety of conversations, though terminology across workflows is one of the largest challenges to acknowledge and resolve.

In addition to how we can leverage this capability more widely, we are also actively interested in 3rd parties who share a need for standard data definitions. Recently the Parameters API was released in Beta at https://aps.autodesk.com/autodesk-parameters-api-cover-page to extend and integrate additional solutions.

[mike_engel]

Stay tuned, the requirements you describe are on our roadmap as we continue to grow the capabilities in the Parameters Service

[mike_engel]

Stay tuned, the requirements you describe are on our roadmap as we continue to grow the capabilities in the Parameters Service

[l.wichert]

Hi there, actually i do NOT see the Option for shared parameters in my ACC-Cloud... any ideas?

[l.wichert]

Hi there, actually i do NOT see the Option for shared parameters in my ACC-Cloud... any ideas?

[dave_fagerstrom]

Within ACC you need to be an account administrator.  Navigate to Account Administration > Library (activate library if not already active) > Parameters (Activate if not already active).  

If you don't have a collection yet, create your first collection (automatically "all parameters" for now) and hit save.  Then all members of your account will be able to access the service from Revit.  

From ACC only account admins can access.  From Revit, only account admins and project admins can add or edit parameter definitions.  See our YouTube playlist for more info on getting setup.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY-ggSrSwbZrrYq8soIPjlcGRyF3lcUve 

Feel free to reach out if you have further questions or problems.

[dave_fagerstrom]

Within ACC you need to be an account administrator.  Navigate to Account Administration > Library (activate library if not already active) > Parameters (Activate if not already active).  

If you don't have a collection yet, create your first collection (automatically "all parameters" for now) and hit save.  Then all members of your account will be able to access the service from Revit.  

From ACC only account admins can access.  From Revit, only account admins and project admins can add or edit parameter definitions.  See our YouTube playlist for more info on getting setup.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY-ggSrSwbZrrYq8soIPjlcGRyF3lcUve 

Feel free to reach out if you have further questions or problems.

[l.wichert]

Hi @dave_fagerstrom thanks for your answer, but -

litteraly i do not have the option to activate the parameters... see...? 

(fyi: we have the full AEC collection/subscription)

[l.wichert]

Hi @dave_fagerstrom thanks for your answer, but -

litteraly i do not have the option to activate the parameters... see...? 

(fyi: we have the full AEC collection/subscription)