New Light doesn't cut through infill from demolished light

[Anonymous]

I've noticed a couple of problems when placing new lights in the same spot as a previous light that has been demolished. 

The main problem is that face-hosted lights won't cut through or hide in any way the infill panels leftover from a demolished light.  It would seem to me that like doors and windows in walls, when an element is demolished and a new element is put into its same location, it should cut through the infill panels as well as the host wall. This does not seem to be the case with ceilings as shown in the screenshots below. If I host the light to the infill panel, it will cut through it, but if the light cuts through the entire infill panel, I'll get the "can't cut instance out of its host" error. It's silly that I would have to nudge this light over a fraction of an inch to get the drawing to look correct.

I understand and have seen how the architectural ceiling-hosted lights do not behave in the same way. However, our firm insists on using face-hosted lights for their better usability to our engineers when they copy-monitor them. Regardless, I don't understand why the face-hosted lights would behave differently in this regard. Is this a bug? Is it intentional? 

For now I'm "fixing" the problem by moving the infill panels to a hidden workset, but I don't think I should have to do that, the new lights should just cut the infill panels, right? Has anyone else seen this problem and have a better workaround?

Everything was tested in a new Revit project with no template and OTB light fixtures.

Existing view - lights are to be demolishedNew construction view - can see and select the infill panel through the new light

Second is a minor graphical problem-- when placing new lights in a model pattern ACT ceiling, the pattern lines at the edges of the light don't show correctly in the existing view (and vice versa.)  The good news is that the drawing will still print correctly, but it's still bothersome to see in the view. Hardware acceleration on/off has no effect.

Existing view - ACT grid lines don't show around new lightsNew construction view - shows lights

Thanks in advance!

[barthbradley]

Interesting. I can't replicate your issue. I'd ask you for a sample file, but it looks pretty straight-forward: 2X4 ACT System constructed in "Existing" Phase with Phase Demolished set to "None". 2X2 Troffer lights constructed in "Existing" Phase with Phase Demolished set to "New Construction". 2X4 Troffer Lights constructed in "New Construction" Phase with Phase Demolished set to "None".

...I'm wondering if it's related to Phase Filter settings. How do you have those set up? 

[Anonymous]

Phase filters and overrides below.  I've attached the project I've been testing in as well. In that file, I have a box on the left that uses the face-hosted lights (where the problem is happening) and on the right is the same box but using architectural ceiling-hosted lights.

[barthbradley]

Sorry; my bad. I didn't read the "Face-Based" part of your post. 

I was able to correct by deleting the void and placing a new one in the family and adjusting it's extents. 

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

That is the behavior of the face based family with the void cutting ONLY the host in the family.  When it is loaded in project, it ONLY cuts the host face, not the adjacent infill face.  It can be fixed:

- Add another void in the family, do not cut the host solid with it

- Set the family to Cut with Void when loaded

- Load in project and use Cut geometry to cut the Infill ceiling with the light.

Attached is the revised file.

[barthbradley]

@ToanDN: Did you look at existing? Grid lines are still missing. What's the solution? I can't readily find one. 

[Anonymous]

Thank you ToanDN and barthbradley for your help! This isn't exactly the solution I was hoping for, but it's a solution nonetheless. I understand why the face-based lights only cut the host and not other elements, it just seems illogical to me that an infill panel wouldn't be recognized as part of that ceiling and cut through as well. Call it one for the wishlist, I guess?

Thanks again! If anyone has any ideas on the grid line issues, I'm still all ears!

[ToanDN]

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@Anonymous wrote:

If anyone has any ideas on the grid line issues, I'm still all ears!

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I don't understand about that one either.  But you can override ONE infill to 100% transparent and that would fix ALL of them.

[Anonymous]

I object to listing this a "solved."  At best, this is a temporary work-around to problem with the software.  If I can place a new light fixture in the infill ceiling that is hosted correctly and cuts the ceiling if it is smaller than the infill be cannot if the new fixture is exactly the same size as the infill is just dumb.  This is an Autodesk/Revit bug and most assuredly is not solved.

Additionally, I can host a new face-based fixture to an infill only if the infill is larger than the new fixture.  Which is nonsense.  I should be able to demolish a 2x2 and replace with a new 2x2 and it should work.  Therefore, even the work-around fails.

[m_r_cox]

I agree with @Anonymous that this listing is not "solved".  The workaround only works in some situations, but not all.  Autodesk needs to allow ceiling hosted elements to host to ceiling infills.  It works with doors and walls, why not with ceilings?  Ridiculous.

[barthbradley]

What do you mean Autodesk needs to allow ceiling hosted elements to host to ceiling infills?  They do.  

Ceiling-Hosted Troffers: