Materials - Saving custom specification fields into adsklib file

[michaelV2GZM]

Hi Folks,

Currently running Revit 2022 fyi.

I am trying to set up our material library where I can apply some specification information that is applicable to a material and am running into some hurdles so I would be keen to know if what I want to achieve is possible.

As an example, if we have created a material and texture for a specific tile, I would like to be able to list the supplier, tile colour etc, so that when the material is loaded into a project from the adsklib file and applied, it will automatically schedule out this information that is contained within the material.

In the material editor, under the Revit Identity tab, there are some options for Description, Manufacturer, Mark etc. It seems that if these values are populated and saved back into the adsklib file they come into the project when that material is added to the document.

It does not appear that you can add any other fields to the Identity tab. I would like to add some multi line fields where we can insert additional information we would like to be able to schedule out.

I have created some "shared parameters" for materials containing the fields I would like to be able to fill out and schedule from. These then need to be inserted as "project parameters" at which point, when you open a material you can access the "custom parameter" icon and up pops the additional "material parameters" that contain the "shared parameters" I want populated.

If I populate these with the specification data I need it works perfectly within the project to schedule out from. The obvious issue I am facing is that when this information is filled out in the project, and the material saved back to the adsklib file, it is not available upon opening the same material from the adsklib file on a new project, so you have to go back and fill out the specifications again for it to schedule in the project.

Q. Is there a way to be able to add some custom fields to a material so that this information can be embedded into the adsklib file and available each time the material is added to a project?

Thanks

[L.Maas]

No this is the way it works. Unfortunately not all material fields are exposed to the schedules.

A solution will be to add those materials to your project template(s).

Other, more convoluted, method would be to do something with Dynamo (reading values from somewhere and then populate fields).

[michaelV2GZM]

Thanks Louis .... after some trial and error I think I have resigned myself to the fact it will not act the way I want it to. I think I can populate the generic fields, but not ideal.

I was hoping to set up the material library so it was reflective of real life materials and carried the necessary specification information so there was less chance of error and also speed up documentation. My preference was to avoid preloading the project template with a pile of materials. The idea was that the adsklib file would carry the 40 different paint colours with the relevant specifications attached, and the user would simply go to the adsklib file and grab their preferred paint colour, load it into the current project and it would automatically schedule.

I might need to read up on how others manage the adsklib file as I don't like the out of the box solution.

[ToanDN]

Transfer Project Standards > Materials

[michaelV2GZM]

Thanks. Not sure how that will help the situation. It would be ok if that material had been used in a project where the specification data had been applied and then your transfer project standards across to the second project, but the preference is to have the specification data saved in with the material and locked away in the adsklib file.

[barthbradley]

So, it sounds like the crux of the issue is that you can't add PROJECT Parameters (Shared or not) to an ADSKLIB.  Okay, but why is that a show stopper? There are several IN-BUILT Text Type Identity Parameters that could carry the "specification data" about the Material.  

[michaelV2GZM]

I guess that you could say that the crux of the issues is the inability to add additional Parameters to a material that is imbedded with the ADSKLIB file.

Yes there are some in-built text identity parameters which will imbed with the ADSKLIB, such as Manufacturer, Model, Cost, Comments + Description, but it would be good if these could be amended or added to to suit the individual user.

With families, we add our own custom shared parameters, enter in the necessary specification information into our own custom fields, so when it is loaded into a project, all of the necessary information to schedule it out into a specification is already included and the user doesn't need to do anything (or put their own spin on how it should be specified).

I would have thought the same principles could be applied to a material. Lets say we have found a great range of tiles. These 3 different tiles could be created as materials, prefilled with the manufacturer, supplier, manufacturers code, size etc and saved in the ADSKLIB. An architect comes along, looks through the ADSKLIB, finds one of these tiles by looking at the thumbnail, decides it would be great for the project, so loads it in. Without having to know anything about the tile, simply by bring it in, it has already scheduled out all of the necessary information to fully describe and schedule that tile. 

To go another step forward, Revit doesn't seem to allow the texture image to be used in a schedule. I can sort of understand as it may look different without the bump files etc added. The texture image is however imbedded into the ADSKLIB (or at least the path to it is from what I understand). If you want to use an image of the selected tile in your schedule so it is a clear graphical representation of the item being specified, it is necessary to add a Project parameter, and then find the representative image on your server and then it can be included in the schedule. This image isn't imbedded in the ADSKLIB, so next time somebody pulls this same tile out of the ADSKLIB to use in a new project, they need to go and find the representative image and link it so it comes up in a schedule. 

As a minimum it would be handy if you had the option of using the Texture Image from the ADSKLIB if you wanted, or have custom fields that can be populated and embedded into the ADSKLIB file.

I would be keen to hear how others manage their ADSKLIB information. Is it really common practice to add project parameters to each project and have to manually enter in this information to schedule for each material used?

Sorry not trying to be difficult, but I often hear that Revit gives you to tools and you need to work out the best way to make them work for you. I have found with families I could get better workflows by using custom shared parameters through forums and YouTube so hope that there may be a better system for managing ADSKLIB files that isn't apparent with the out of the box Revit and needs some workarounds.

[ToanDN]

When you add new parameters to Materials category, they belong to the active project, not the materials themselves.  So, use Transfer Project Standards is how to bring them to other projects.  Have you tried it yet?

[michaelV2GZM]

You are correct in what you say, however it isn't resolving the issue that I am facing.

In order to utilise Transfer Project Standards, you need to load a material from the ADSKLIB file to make it a Project Material. From here you can apply custom material parameters as you see fit. If you then open a new project and Transfer Project Standards into the new project, those custom material parameters can come across with that material. 

If however you fill out your custom material parameters in the Project Material, then save that material back into the ADSKLIB file, those parameters are lost and do not appear when you next load that material into a new project out of the ADSKLIB file. 

The key thing I am trying to do is lock in some custom text parameters that are embedded into the ADSKLIB file (in much the same way the out of the box "manufacturer" or "model" fields appear to be) and are already populated when you bring the material in from the ADSKLIB file to make it into a Project Material.

As mentioned previously, it could be possible to load every office material into the template file, and create the custom parameters, however it seems crazy to have 45 different benchtop materials to sort through at a project level when I would have though the intention was to have those 45 different benchtop materials contained in your ADSKLIB file and then you just bring the 1 you want into the specific project.

[barthbradley]

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@michaelV2GZM wrote:

To go another step forward, Revit doesn't seem to allow the texture image to be used in a schedule. 

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You can put any image you want into a schedule; however, I have no idea what the value of putting the Image into a Schedule would be though.  But whatever.  

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2019/ENU/Revit-D...

[michaelV2GZM]

I'm sure it varies depending on location and the like, however here every Interior Designer I have ever worked with always prepares a schedule in Microsoft Excel which lists the code, supplier, specification and product image. With changing technology, visual representation seems to be much more common than the old 2d drafting days. Its always handy for a client to pick up a schedule and they can see an example of the carpet being used, not just a series of text. The issue with doing this all externally in Excel is that it is just set up for failure, with changes being made in the project, having to be manually updated in Excel.

The system that I am trying to implement is within Revit and as per the attachment. In this instance, the image used for the carpet isn't the same image that is used for the material texture. It was simple enough to create a custom image parameter, link it to the jpeg and then it can be shown in the schedule. Also the specification text can clearly be scheduled within Revit.

The problem being, this is all project based and cannot be embedded with the material in the ADSKLIB file. The next time that carpet is loaded into a project from the ADSKLIB file, none of that information is available and either needs to be reentered or transferred from another project where it has already been entered in as a project based material.

The workaround seems to be to enter the specification information into the "Model" field which is an out of the box Identity field that is embedded into the ADSKLIB file - the image to be displayed doesn't seem to be able to be embedded.

[michaelV2GZM]

As an aside ..... here is a sanitaryware schedule that is automatically generated in Revit. This schedule is drawing on custom shared parameters set within the individual families. Each family has been structured to include the supplier, description / specification and a product image before saving. The user simply loads the required components into the project, puts it in place, adds a Type Mark value and it will automatically generate the schedule which has already been setup in the template.

If the item was to be discontinued by the manufacturer, the family could either be deleted to avoid anybody putting it in future projects, or the family updated with the new information so that future jobs specify the correct information.

I was hoping for something similar with scheduling materials as a materials / finishes schedule.

[barthbradley]

RE: Message 11 of 13

I don't see anything in that screenshot that can't come from an ADSKLIB.  

...is the "crux" more about sharing Images?  

Sharing material appearances with other Revit users | Revit | Autodesk Knowledge Network

Help: Best Practices: Storing Image Files (autodesk.com)

[ToanDN]

That is a part list, a component schedule, not a material schedule.

[michaelV2GZM]

I'm sure each country would do something different - so that isn't really the point here. Just trying to work through with other users if there is a way to get Revit to save and report information that would assist in our workflow.

[michaelV2GZM]

Unfortunately nothing in that schedule came from the ADSKLIB file, it all had to be entered in at a project level.

The first image below shows the information that was used to create the schedule, and it is all Custom Parameters at a project level (one the material has been loaded as a Project Material).

When it gets saved back into the ADSKLIB file this information is lost and from what I can tell cannot be embedded into the ADSKLIB file. The out of the box fields to the right do seem to be retained when a project material is saved back to the ADSKLIB file, but there are limited fields, hard to clearly identify what information should go where, and no option to embed an image file.

  

[ToanDN]

The point is that it can be done as a component schedule, not as a material take off schedule. You can rename it to whatever you want though.

[barthbradley]

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@michaelV2GZM wrote:

Unfortunately nothing in that schedule came from the ADSKLIB file, it all had to be entered in at a project level.

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Well, this came into a Project via a ADSKLIB:  

...I'd say mine is near a dead on ballz match to yours.  No? 

Mine again, but formatted like yours.  Looks like a dead on ballz match to me. 

[michaelV2GZM]

There is limited opportunity to populate and embed information into the ADSKLIB from what I can work out. I agree that you could populate "Material: Description" to show the specification, the material name could be the "Mark" field (if you wanted to have this populated) however the Image column cannot be embedded into the ADSKLIB file.

It still doesn't appear that you can create custom fields into a material that are embedded into the ADSKLIB file. It is possible to embed shared parameters in a library component so the fields are already populated when its loaded into a project.

The work around is to try and populate the Revit fields, such as "Material: Manufacturer", "Material Description" or "Material: Model". If however we want to be able to schedule (and sort by) a preferred supplier, it may be necessary that this information is put into the "Material: Manufacturer", this would then require the product manufacturer information to be included with the "Material: Description" information (not unlike what I have shown in my example) - which is doable, but somewhat messy as you need to know what each field is to be used for as it may not align with the heading.

I am almost resigned to the fact that I will need to populate the out of the box Revit fields as best I can, and then on a project by project basis link in a product image. 

Still keen on working out how others deal with scheduling finishes, and if the information is entered on a project by project basis.

[michaelV2GZM]

How do you see it being done as a component schedule if the information to be scheduled cannot be embed into the ASDKLIB file?

I am at a loss as to how many ways I have tried it, with various schedules and take offs, but keep coming back to the key point that ideally the information I want to extract needs to be entered at a project level and cannot be embed into the ASDKLIB file.