Issue with Family and Groups moving and or rotating in my drawings

[Anonymous]

I am having an issue with Family and Groups moving and or rotating in my drawings. Below are several images of just a few of the problems I am running into.

The image on the right is the Group that was edited. These Groups include other grouped items and Family items as well, example: gypsum board is a Family in the Group. The image on the left is what happened to the original Group after I made the change. As you can see, the gypsum board and sheathing moved down. Both Groups are the exact same Group side by side in a Section view. This happens in Detail views as well.

The image on the right is the latest edited Group. The image on the left is what happened to the Group in the Section view after it was edited. Again, these two exact same Groups are side by side in the Section view. This time, both the overhead door shroud/ motor and the gypsum board rotated.

 

The image on the left is the corrected Group. The image on the right is what happened to the Group after it was edited. Once again, these are the exact same Group, side by side in a Section.

I am able to delete the messed up Group in the Section with the one that I copied or inserted into the Section.

I have tried multiple different ways of trying to avoid this. I cannot reproduce the same effect if I want to, it just happens when it wants to. 

Why would the exact same Group look different side by side? Why are some things (not all of the same things) moving and rotating?

This issue seems to happen more frequently with the Family items but does happen with Groups as well.

Thank you in advance of any light that you might shine upon my issue.

[cbcarch]

Nested groups can sometime have odd behavior. Try un-nesting all of them, then create one new complete group of all the elements. I suspect there are some angular dimensions, parameters, reference planes/ref. lines in some of the families

that once loaded / nested into a group are causing the issues.

[barthbradley]

Also sounds like the behavior of attached relationships in groups...which AKN warns us about.  They also warn us about nested groups, as @cbcarch noted. 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/EN...

...is that a Mirrored group I see in your screenshot? That's also warned about.  

[Anonymous]

Hi Barthbradley,

Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, I am transitioning between 30+ years of Autocad to Revit and don't have the luxury of reading through the Autodesk Knowledge Network before I attempt to do anything in Revit. I try my best and when issues come up I ask others why and how to fix them. It doesn't seem like a stretch to ask Revit to allow mirroring or nested groups. BTW, I don't believe I mirrored anything in the screenshots, it just looks like I did. That's why I am asking the question. Not every Group behaves this way, only some. If they behaved this way in the beginning when I made them I wouldn't have continued doing what I am supposed to know what not to do.

Now that I know what not to do I will not do it.

Thank you for your reply and setting me straight.

[barthbradley]

Disappointingly, there isn't much from AKN about groups, other than the one-sheet I linked you to.  But, I've even broken those rules on occasion before; sometimes having issues; sometimes not.  In fact, yours is not an uncommon post I see. I suspect anybody that has being using Revit and groups for any length of time, can share your frustration.  

Welcome to Revit and the Forum!  

[jsmithX5E8C]

Hi, I'm using Revit 2019 and have also come across detail items rotating within groups. I'm not aware of any of the groups being mirrored or rotated anywhere else in the model and in this instance it is all annotation lines and detail items within the group. I typically adopt the best practices Autodesk outline for them however the fact there are best practices for using groups shows how unstable they are! As no groups have been mirrored or rotated I can't understand why detail items are rotating by themselves?

Also having to create separate versions of the same detail for left and right handing is one thing, but for rotating a group as well begins to make groups useless. How has this not been resolved even just for annotation?