how to recognize flipped families

[peter__smith]

Hello,

I've placed some windows in the model. A part of those windows are flipped.

Question:

How can I recognize which windows are flipped? 

Kind regards,

peter smith

[ToanDN]

This one is for doors but it may shed a light for you to get the information for windows.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/flip-controls-if-an-object-has-been-flipped-...

[Anonymous]

Hello,

There is usually an exterior and interior side for window families.

If I were you, I would:

1.  Open the window family

2.  In the family, Go to a plan view - Ref. Level. 

     In this view, the top half from the "Centre" reference line is usually the exterior side, and the bottom is the interior side.

3.  Look for where the "Flip" arrow has been placed.  Is it on the exterior side or the interior side? (Move it if you want to)

     The location of the "Flip" arrow will help you determine which windows are in the wrong side in your Revit file.

4.  Reload this family into your project if you changed anything.

5.  Click on your windows (one by one) and see if the "Flip" arrow is showing up on the proper side (Exterior or Interior)

In the image attached,  it is showing where the Floor Plan - Ref. Level can be found,  the Exterior and Interior side of the window, and also the "Flip" Arrow 

EDIT:  If the glass is clearly on the exterior or interior side, you can use this as a reference instead of the "Flip" arrow.

[Anonymous]

I am working on Window Shop drawings where the natural orientation is flipped from the way revit shows exterior and interior. One always details windows from the Exterior folks! How to best re-orient this in the family i am making. I don't care about seeing the interior elevation as we are documenting the EXTERIOR frame system and it should be on the lower part of the plan. 

Mahalo in advance 

[Anonymous]

But this is not what makes sense . . . when looking at a plan from the perspective of a window frame surely it is more clear to see what is going on if that is on the lower part! 

[Corsten.Au]

Hi

first of all the window family itself should be correct , modelled exterior to exterior side and interior to interior side.

if that’s wrongly modeled then pls fix that

secondly if you don’t what to fix the exterior and interior side of window then you may choose of use a new window family and nest the old one.. and use this new family which is oriented correctly..

Usually in annotation/ exterior elevation side of window, you may choose of place some 3d model line to identify the exterior side and it’s easy to fix all the windows in elevation but flipping ( use space bar )

experienced Revit user fixes the orientation on plan itself, cause it’s easy to see and flip using flip arrows...

hope that helps

cheers

[Anonymous]

Thanks but you fail to grasp the problem!

When using the default window family the outside is “up” this is not what i want! All the types of windows i am creating are exterior frames therefore one has to “flip” the right / left orientation of each vertical mullion. This can cause confusion and what i am experimenting with is to adjust this either in the window family by switching the outside to below. Or rotating the window on the sheet thereby making the plan match the Elevation from the outside.

The possible solution is ugly as it involves counterclockwise rotation on the Sheet! this causes the titles to require a rotated family (yes mate i have some 6 years experience using revit - tho i would never claim to be an expert 🙂

Here you are a couple of screen shots to illustrate the issue.

This has correct plan to Elevation relationship (but uses a clumsy rotate on sheet option).




BELOW is straight plan to Elevation (however since i screwed up in the window family forgetting to “flip” the right and left the final ELEVATION is wrong!



Now i went back in and remade a window family (yes renaming it to be WIN TYPE A1,B1 OUTDOWN) as seen below :
First i flipped the inside / outside from default to the way i need it to be because all i care about is the EXTERIOR plan which must match the Architect’s legend. Easiest way to not have to deal with flipping (aka drawing in a mirror which is prone to mistakes)

[Anonymous]

Well i was able to adjust the default window family (renaming it to EXT down), changed the label of EXTERIOR to INTERIOR, and visa versa (first time i forgot to change the view name as well so it didn't function properly) but when it finally dawned on me while i was talking to my client - always happens @ odd times revelations eh? So now it works as one would logically expect an exterior window to have it's plan with the Exterior side down so you don't have to (as all the tutorials remind you "flip" left and right. That is insanity itself. 

The family now works properly and all is good 🙂 

Mahalo for efforts to straighten me out . . . it's been six years making revit mistakes and i am surely reaching some kind of mastery of dumb things to do eh? 

[Anonymous]

I have the same issue with how the Window Template is setup.  I tried changing the name of the view and it still doesn't work for me.

[SteveKStafford]

If you watch closely we influence the placement (in plan views) of the exterior side of a window by which side of the wall we click on. The stock windows have the Exterior side of windows and doors at the top of the view but that is in the family editor. That world is not a shop drawing environment, it's a modelling and constraint building world.

What is wrong (in my view) is that when you place windows (or doors) in a 3D view or elevation View Revit doesn't provide a way to provide this input (picking on the correct side of the wall). If we place a window in an interior elevation a stock window will face outside (exterior side is out), that works for me. If we place a window in an exterior elevation view the window doesn't face the exterior, it is backward. I can fix it with the Space Bar to flip the orientation so it is easy but still it would be better if the exterior side of the wall was related to the exterior orientation of a family.

[Anonymous]

I disagree respectfully Steve, as you are a Revitmaster . . . but i find the ability (which i was able to solve by flipping the exterior to down and renaming the views ; Now this is correct in the world of Architecture. Nobody lays out an elevation of the exterior of a building without the plan below and “carrying up the plan elements knowing that one is not looking in a mirror . . . that is just bloody annoying. But it is an annoying if simple adjustment. Easier than remembering to “flip” the left/right reading in my mind when one is laying out elevations. Especially when anticipating the shop drawings aspect.

Regardless; revit should make the option available system wide in my opine 🙂

[Anonymous]

Justin,

No doubt i have committed some form of Revit Sin which would come back to bite me somewhere in a big project. . . however since i was hired to do shop drawings it made complete sense to me!

In the reference pIam I simply highlighted the word EXTERIOR and changed it to INTERIOR;

Why did i bother doing all this? Because my brain is small and forgets to “flip” left and right - nobody designs elevations with the Interior in the down position that is loony tunes.

Here is a sheet with the plans directly below the shop drawing elevations : Seems perfectly reasonable to me!

[ToanDN]

---

@Anonymous wrote:
I disagree respectfully Steve, as you are a Revitmaster . . . but i find the ability (which i was able to solve by flipping the exterior to down and renaming the views ; Now this is correct in the world of Architecture. Nobody lays out an elevation of the exterior of a building without the plan below and “carrying up the plan elements knowing that one is not looking in a mirror . . . that is just bloody annoying. But it is an annoying if simple adjustment. Easier than remembering to “flip” the left/right reading in my mind when one is laying out elevations. Especially when anticipating the shop drawings aspect.

Regardless; revit should make the option available system wide in my opine 🙂

---

The issue the the window family template is wrong from the get go - the exterior side is labeled as interior and vice versa.  Most users don't know it until they need to report the exterior window location based on the interior rooms. 

When you say "flipping the exterior to down and renaming the views", do you mean you have to flip the geometry of the window inside the family or simply flipping the label?  If the former then it is along with how I have fixed it.  if the latter then I find it is hard to believe.

For complex window families with lot of constraints  in place, it likely breaks when mirrored.  In such case, I had to nest the original family into another window family and flip it.

[SteveKStafford]

@ToanDN  What are you considering the interior side of a window? In the stock families, the From Room values for a window report the interior side of the window family. If I flip the geometry of the family then the interior side is the outside of the building for an exterior wall or a corridor instead of a room.

[Anonymous]

Steve,

It is more of a visual thing when copying my client’s shop drawing needs from the Architects Elevations . . . because you have to “flip” the asymmetrical layout of V-bars i had hoped that the solution i came up with would make my life easier. Yes i know about flipping buttons and all that but for the life of me i cannot comprehend doing it the way Revit does. I learned how to make Elevations from plans back in my apprenticeship using plastic lead on mylar in Washington DC and i can assure you nobody did the interior “up” we were all concerned with the Exterior Elevation layouts . . .

Below is what i mean. . . and below that is how i did it in the window family environment. I simply renamed the Exterior in both the ref. plan as well as the Elevations switching them. Easier for me to not have to flip as you can clearly see below in plan to elevation layout. Granted this was a weird one as i was hired to do shop drawings. . . but hey fix as fixer can eh?

Mahalo for your feedback.
RO

[Anonymous]

Steve,

Not the way i have it. It works perfectly 🙂 Well no doubt there is some hidden glitch that would bite me or a team working with such a floppy flippy method. But if one is only concerned with the Exterior and where the Vertical Bar/mullion in an asymmetrical layout goes then this is superior to the default Revit layout. in my opine which again is far from as advanced as your own.

I do appreciate your input Steve!

RO

[SteveKStafford]

The family editor environment isn't a drafting world, nor shop drawing world. Swapping the labels or renaming the views doesn't change the placement behavior in a Revit project. I must not understand what you're trying to do or where you're trying to do it.

[ToanDN]

---

@SteveKStafford wrote:

@ToanDN  What are you considering the interior side of a window? In the stock families, the From Room values for a window report the interior side of the window family. If I flip the geometry of the family then the interior side is the outside of the building for an exterior wall or a corridor instead of a room.

---

I am considering the interior side is the side of the room that reports the windows when I create a Room schedule with an embedded window schedule.  The From Room and To Room information from a Window schedule are rather irrelevant because they can swap on the schedule without even flipping the window physically on plan.

In the example below, if I would like the (a) windows to be included in the Room schedule and remain on the exterior side of the wall, the only way is to edit the family and flip it.  Changing From Room/ To Room, or changing the Room Location arrow, doesn't help.

p/s: the experiment was from answering another users.  I myself do not schedule windows using Room location.

[Anonymous]

Steve,

Here is the final shop drawing sheet where my method worked perfectly!

If you study the plans below the elevations when i did it using default inside down i kept forgetting to do the left is right rigaramoral . . . then, while making the family itself i wanted the correct exterior below so the direct representation of Elevation to plan is ensured. All the tutorials i studied had the author reminding people they had to “flip” left and right facing mullion arrangements. I find that offensive and stupid. As i mentioned i learned decades ago how to strike an elevation up off of a plan when drawing by hand. This is much more logical. Why exterior is up remains a mystery to me. So i changed it to suit my needs. No problem, easier than thinking like i was doing mirror drawings.

Mind U it took me a bit to get it all worked out (having to rename the Elevations in the Project Browser had me flummoxed for a bit.

But it worked out as you can see below. 🙂

Revit while often an annoying luv does provide alternate routes eh?

RO

[SteveKStafford]

Interesting. I get that result from the stock windows without doing anything to them.