Hosted UV Parameter using imperial units?

Hosted UV Parameter using imperial units?

jagostinho74
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Message 1 of 19

Hosted UV Parameter using imperial units?

jagostinho74
Collaborator
Collaborator

Hello,

 

Can anyone explain why it looks that, in the conceptual environment, the Hosted U and V Parameters are using imperial units in spite of the fact that the Project Units are set to metric?

 

This is found at least in Revit 2016 and 2017.

 

Thanks

J

UV Units.png

 

 

 

Assistant BIM/CAD Manager

Manchester, UK


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Message 2 of 19

barthbradley
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Consultant

This applies only to reference points hosted on a surface.

 

I believe they are using metric, why do believe otherwise?  

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Message 3 of 19

jagostinho74
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Collaborator

If you look at the image in the post the U and V values show "1" while the dimensioning of the Point shows 305 mm. It is rounding the 304.8mm.

Assistant BIM/CAD Manager

Manchester, UK


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Message 4 of 19

Alfredo_Medina
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No, it's not a dimension value. It's a value that indicates relative position of the point on a surface. The Hosted U parameter is like an "Y" coordinate, and the Hosted V parameter is like a "X" coordinate on an imaginary 12 x 12 grid of a surface. The center of the coordinate system is at the center of the surface. A value of zero for both U and V will locate a point that is hosted on a surface, at the center of the grid, center of the surface. A value of 1, 1, will move the point 1 grid to the right, 1 grid to the North.

 

 

 2017-10-09_11-58-47.jpg

 

 

 


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Profile on Linkedin
Message 5 of 19

jagostinho74
Collaborator
Collaborator

@Alfredo_Medina you make a good point. That makes sense. But then again, why is grid set in imperial units? And where can I change the grid settings so that moving steps on the grid are easier to use in a metric enviroment? 

Assistant BIM/CAD Manager

Manchester, UK


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Message 6 of 19

Alfredo_Medina
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Mentor

It's not Imperial. It's not Metric either. It's a unit-less range of values indicating position of a point on a surface, between -6 to 6 in both directions, Y, X, or U, V.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Profile on Linkedin
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Message 7 of 19

jagostinho74
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Collaborator

@Alfredo_Medina if it is a -6 to 6 grid should the max values not be limited to those? I am able to type larger values on the UV parameters.

 

I am sorry for so many questions but I found hardly any info on this topic on the internet and the ADSK help is does not mention it at all. Actually, it seems out of date since it mentiones the Center (Front/Back) planes and all that.

 

Many thanks for your time to clarify this.

 

 

UV Shape Handle.png

 

 

 

Assistant BIM/CAD Manager

Manchester, UK


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Message 8 of 19

Alfredo_Medina
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Mentor

The value represents the position of a point on a surface.  It is meaningless if the point is not on a surface. I have seen that Revit increases or decreases the range if the shape gets bigger or smaller. It's not always from -6 to 6. But the meaning of the two values always indicate position, not dimensions. If the value that you enter exceeds the maximum range, the point will be located on the edge of the surface anyway. 


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Profile on Linkedin
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Message 9 of 19

jagostinho74
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Collaborator

 

I understand what you say. And it makes sense to reference points on surfaces using UV Grid Coordinates.

 

It just looks strange that the Grid Positions match the Decimal Feet units exactly.

 

If I want to drive the constraints by associating a parameter to it, and if I want to do it in metric units, I will always need to create an auxiliary parameter to convert from Feet to MM.

 

It really feels that the programmers forgot to code the conversion in for these parameters.

 

UV w feet.png

 

 

 

 

Assistant BIM/CAD Manager

Manchester, UK


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Message 10 of 19

Alfredo_Medina
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Mentor

What are these points hosted to? These values have a meaning only when the point is hosted on something. The values do not correspond to values in feet. Try to move the points in another direction or further away, and you will see that there is no relation. 


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Profile on Linkedin
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Message 11 of 19

jagostinho74
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Collaborator

These points are constrained to the YZ plane.

 

Whenever I try to move the points to different places their distance to the origin measured in feet always matches the U and V parameter values.

 

File attached. Do they show different values when you move them?

 

 

UV in feet in a different place.png

 

 

 

Assistant BIM/CAD Manager

Manchester, UK


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Message 12 of 19

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant
Accepted solution

Looks like the metric adaptive template is not built from scratch but based on the imperial one.  there is nothing you (we) can do about it except for requesting Autodesk to fix it.

 

For now, you can manually enter in the value you need divided by 1 foot, which is equivalent to enter in the value for the dimension in the model view.

 

Capture.PNG

Message 13 of 19

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

@jagostinho74

 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2014/EN...

 

I understand your confusion now. According to this link, both those parameters are supposed to show the distance in project units from the center of the surface. They do not.

 

Beyond this, I have no clue how this reference point relates to a surface. It doesn’t appear to have the ability to “host” to anything – including a surface, It is always relative to the “internal” 0,0,0 origin point of the template environment it’s created in. This behavior is also contrary to what this Autodesk Knowledge Network link states.

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Message 14 of 19

Alfredo_Medina
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I take my previous statement back. The value does work in decimal feet, even in the metric template. You are right on that. Is this an inconsistency? Yes.

 

Having acknowledged that, however, I do not think the units are very important or useful in this case, and there is always the chance to convert one unit to the other if that is necessary. The reason for my comment is that points are not usually driven by linear dimensions in this template. The U V parameter refers to grids in surfaces, not in linear dimensions as in the example posted in this thread. Notice, in the image below. A value 0 and 0 for U and V in a circular surface puts the point on the center, regardless of the units. But, in an irregular surface, a value of 0,0 puts the point at one corner of the surface? Which corner? left or right, up or down? it depends maybe how the surface was made. 

 

 

 

 

 

2017-10-10_14-46-11.jpg


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Profile on Linkedin
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Message 15 of 19

barthbradley
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Consultant

@Alfredo_Medina: I'm curious to know how you hosted them to the divided surface. I cannot. Are these Shape Handle Points in your picture? 

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Message 16 of 19

Alfredo_Medina
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Mentor

No, the points are hosted to the original surface, not to the divided surface. I added the divided surface to see the grids, and count them and see if there was a relation with the values of the parameters and the grid.

The points are reference points.


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Profile on Linkedin
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Message 17 of 19

jagostinho74
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Collaborator

@ToanDN

That was it precisely. Many thanks.

 

@Alfredo_Medina

Sorry if my previous posts were not entirely clear on my query.

Assistant BIM/CAD Manager

Manchester, UK


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Message 18 of 19

Alfredo_Medina
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@jagostinho74 wrote:

 

 

 

@Alfredo_Medina

Sorry if my previous posts were not entirely clear on my query.


@jagostinho74  No need to say sorry at all. I should say sorry, then, for being wrong about this. No problem.

 

If you want to control points by moving them a certain distance with precision, use the Offset parameter, instead of dimensions, and instead of these UV parameters. 


Alfredo Medina _________________________________________________________________ ______
Licensed Architect (Florida) | Freelance Instructor | Profile on Linkedin
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Message 19 of 19

juanirr93
Explorer
Explorer

Hello everyone!

Thank you for this amazing "debate" on u and v parameters. Right now I was struggling to understand them and this helped me to know that I'm not the only one having these problems! 

I thought the same as in my projects u and v exactly corresponded with imperial units when hosted to a surface in my framing structure. But the general case is different with more intricated surfaces as you said.

I think Autodesk didn't fix that problem with the template!

 

Thank you a lot! 

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