Group-Placing Off Coordinates

[erin.card]

We use A LOT of groups in our revit files (managing tiny house layouts) and I've noticed recently that when I place a group, it no longer lines up to its coordinate origin when placing.   Like, it's ignoring the origin but not by a huge margin.  This is a problem when I'm trying to place a group of outlets on a wall, but it doesn't place where I know the origin is, so the group panics and breaks because the outlets are now 31/128" off the wall or something.  See example screenshots. 

Using Revit 2023, 

23.0.11.19
20220503_1030(x64)

Placing a wall framing group -- lining up to where the group origin should be.

Where the group actually places.  This one only had a horizontal offset.  Sometimes its a vertical offset or both.  

Outlet group being offset from where I place.  Where the origin set when placing this group is 3/8" on the Y axis and 1/4" off on the X.  

[barthbradley]

Is this about 31/128"?  

Turn Thin Lines OFF and see if it's really that big of a deal.  

[ToanDN]

Do you have any CAD file with a large extent imported or linked in the model?

Copy that group to a new file to test its placement by group origin in order to determine if your project file or the entire program is the culprit.

[erin.card]

It's less about the actual amount (we work down to 1/8" tolerance in our shop) and more about the fact that it's doing it at all and causing issues with groups that require wall attachments or having to then line things up again.  But the outlets came in 3/8 off in one direction and 1/4" in the other which means they were no longer sitting on walls, and my framing group in the first screen shots was off by over 1/8", and no longer aligned to the cutting plane I had to show framing, either.  

[erin.card]

No linked files at all.  

[ToanDN]

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@erin.card wrote:

No linked files at all.  

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What about the test?

[barthbradley]

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@erin.card wrote:

But the outlets came in 3/8 off in one direction and 1/4" in the other 

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Ha! I would hate to be the electrical contractor on your project.  Actually, the framing contractor, since gang boxes are typically fastened to studs. 

[erin.card]

Copied a group into a new basic Revit Architectural template, and tried to place the group at the intersection of the lines.

Used "CS" first, and you can see it does a weird offset on the group (Bottom right) and despite my cursor aligning to the intersection, it placed it off-center.   Dragging the group from the project browser yields the same result.

I un-grouped, and -regrouped in this blank template, and I am getting the same off-origin result.   The tan rectangles represent a 2x4.  

[erin.card]

We are design-build and have an in-house electrician, but yes.  1/4" left or right doesn't matter visually for the outlets on our production drawings, but since they're wall-based components, having them placed 3/16", or hell even 1/128 off the wall when I place the group, breaks the group.  

[ToanDN]

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@erin.card wrote:

Copied a group into a new basic Revit Architectural template, and tried to place the group at the intersection of the lines.

Used "CS" first, and you can see it does a weird offset on the group (Bottom right) and despite my cursor aligning to the intersection, it placed it off-center.   Dragging the group from the project browser yields the same result.

I un-grouped, and -regrouped in this blank template, and I am getting the same off-origin result.   The tan rectangles represent a 2x4.  

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Can you share the test file?

[barthbradley]

Maybe I'm misreading you. What do you mean by "breaks the group"?  

[erin.card]

Oh it's not even consistently off.  👍

I tried to place the group aligned to the crosshair, and it was off by 15/256 in Y and 3/32" in X.

I used CS to try to place it again, and it's off by different amounts. 

[erin.card]

Yep.  Here's the blank-template test I referenced above.  

[erin.card]

I am going to uninstall any add-ins i've got to see if that's messing up something.  I know the Kiwi family reviser exacerbates a bug in the properties box, so might be something else exacerbating a bug.  

[barthbradley]

What I'm seeing is attached relationships in a Group.  That's a no-no.  

About Best Practices for Groups | Revit | Autodesk Knowledge Network

[ToanDN]

I can place it spot on, no offsetting no shifting.  Maybe it is yours addins.

[erin.card]

Detach any of them and you get the same issue.  It happens to all my groups currently, not just that one.  That one just has nice corners so you can see the issue easier.  

[erin.card]

Thanks -- I don't have many, but I'm going to uninstall one at a time, from my least used to most to see which one might be causing the issue.  Will report back. 

[barthbradley]

How did you detach a column that is hosted to two levels?  

FWIW: 

[erin.card]

Okay, went one-by-one removing every add-in or update from revit I could find (even official ones, but not like, the material libraries) and am still getting the issue.

My co-worker is not having this issue, and she has as many add-ons installed.  

I will attempt now to un-install and re-install Revit itself.  *sigh*