Group errors... yet again.

[gsucci]

hello

I have one half building, grouped, so that two mirrored instances of the group make up the whole building (yes, it's symmetric).

The model is just started, so is very simple, yet groups are just the usual disaster to try to use.

Even with simply two instances, I begun getting the "Fix group" error. There are like just 200 elements in the model: few columns, 3 slabs, 20 walls, maybe... true, I have the columns as nested groups, which is not advised by Autodesk, but still...

To try to simplify things, and keep working, I deleted one instance of the group, so that only one half of the building is placed, and I just edit that one instance to keep modeling.

Too much to ask of course: now I am getting the error in the attached screen shot: "Can't make Change to Group "bla bla" with more than one instance."

I ONLY have one instance.

Why is it still producing this error, even with only one instance placed in the model?

Maybe if we keep posting about how agonizing it is to work with groups in Revit will make the Foundry face the issue, sooner or later?

Thank you,

regards

Gio

[barthbradley]

Mirroring groups? 

Usually gets me into trouble. 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/EN...

[ToanDN]

So I have read the link that @barthbradley referenced and you already violated 2 out of 5 bullet points just based on what you disclosed.  How about follow the rules a bit more closely?

[RobDraw]

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@gsucciwrote:

hello

I have one half building, grouped, so that two mirrored instances of the group make up the whole building (yes, it's symmetric).

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Maybe at it's simplest level. Beyond that, I highly doubt that it is truly symetrical unless you are getting right handed doors, fixtures, etc. for one sided and left handed for the other.

[gsucci]

The error message produced is a non-sense PER SE, since there is only one group instance in the model.

This type of error tells me that groups are simply not resolved in Revit, from a developmental stand point. They are like a Beta.

Mirroring groups was terrible, then it became better, after 2010, or something like that. in other words, it is possible to improve the functionality of grouping.

The notion that this is the only possible implementation of grouping in the Revit environment is quite bizarre.

For example, there *can* be a third option, (to leave the group alone), when the "Fix Group" error comes up: it just needs to be programmed into the software.

We know that there is NO NEED to duplicate the group, substitute all the old instances for the new one, delete the old form the browser, then remove the added number at the end of the new name...

Anyways, the use of mirrored groups was for the initial modeling of the building, not for final production of documentation. I am aware there is no mirroring in real life of construction, but guess what, Revit modeling environment is NOT real life, and it would really be useful if groups would simply work in a predictable manner.

I would have exploded the groups later on, when design and most of the modeling was done, anyways...

If developers cannot salvage the grouping feature as it stands, then maybe we need some new feature: "Blocks" maybe?

Actually, a "SuperFamily" element would be awesome: ability to contain system families (walls, floors, ...), ability to have parameters, save to disk as independent file, reload, or save as, and interactions with the rest of the model only ON-DEMAND (for example: extend walls to level above, or join a wall with a wall outside the SuperFamily), move with levels with option to avoid ANY RECALCULATION, tag & schedule all its elements, of course rotate / mirror as if there was no tomorrow... AND, the "exclude" feature, which is one of the few really good things about current groups... and it would allow to resolve many of the mirroring vs. real life issues...

I should write to the feature request page...

Thank you guys, in any case,

regards

gio

[RobDraw]

I'm not sure groups were meant to be used in this fashion. I've only found them useful for drafting views.

Yeah, the feature request forum is down the road to the left.

[ToanDN]

Maybe you could use Assemblies in lieu of Groups.  It automatically creates different a new Assembly when you mirror the original to avoid conflicts.  

[syman2000]

I just have this issue cropping up recently. When I use the non-patch 2017, it works fine. You can mirror groups. When I update to Revit 2017 SP2, this is where the issue come up. I get the error message when I mirror the group. The latest version 2017-2.3 still getting those error message. I don't know if this was done intentionally. It shouldn't happen. The door mirroring cause it to virtually break group. I test it out for Revit 2018 and the problem still exist. What is going Autodesk? I would have to revert to non-patch 2017. This is nightmare to deal with.

[syman2000]

Update on the group situation. Seems like addon - BIMtech tools cause the door to disconnect from the group. I've talk to them and see if there is a solution.