Group edit error

[Lachlan-JWP]

I'm having an issue where I cannot make changes to groups in revit.

In the attached example I'm creating a an operable wall door family with an array to control the door panels & the symbolic lines to show their location when open (eg. side or centre stack). I will make the first element of the symbolic lines and lock them to reference planes. Then when I create the array the locks are broken, but when I edit the group to re-apply the lock I get the error shown.

Can someone tell me if I've just forgotten how this is done, am I doing it right?

I've attached the file as well in case that's helpful.

Thanks.

[bin]

Try not to constraint in a group.

Maybe just edit your normal door panel family to create those opened door panels(different subcategory maybe). 

You can add visibility parameter so you can have them open or closed... 

[Lachlan-JWP]

They have to be in an array and I've yet to see an array that didn't group the element within...

[bin]

Group is fine, not group of lines. Put those lines into a family so you can lock it onto the reference plane while using the parameter to control the width/depth. 

[bin · Accepted solution]

Something like this, I edited your door panel to create the symbolic line family.

[barthbradley]

Are you saying that you are Arraying Detail Lines and when you go to select them, they don't appear to be Grouped? Are you in Elevation? Sounds Work Plane related -- like your Symbolic Lines are on a Work Plane that is obscured by a model element -- maybe the Host Wall.    Hide the Wall Host or put the Symbolic Lines on the face of the Host Wall.   

[Lachlan-JWP]

I attached a video of what I'm doing. I'm in a plan view, operating in the reference level (parallel to that view). The elements are grouping as they are supposed to for an array, but they are not able to be edited and they lose all their alignments when they are grouped. In this instance if I want those lines to be locked to that reference plane and reflect the panel size, the group seems to break that. The only solution so far is to make the grouped elements into a nested family as suggested by bin above. I don't remember that being necessary in the past. I just want to know if I'm mistaken or has something changed with how groups work. 

[Lachlan-JWP]

Thanks bin.

That was how I did the door panels in the model, I was certain that Revit didn't break the alignment locks when creating groups in the past. Have I got that wrong?

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

I don't know what you did in that past, but you got lucky. That's it. The Array is behaving exactly as I would expect. If you want the Arrayed element to do what you are showing, you need to nest it into the Family and associate it's length Parameter to an Instance Parameter in the Host. Also, the length can only grow in one direction -- not from the middle outward as you do with some families using EQ. Dimensions.  The element to be Arrayed must be "anchored" at one end (e.g. Aligned and Locked) and grow in the opposite direction using the Instance Parameter -- NOT by Aligning and Locking the opposite end to a Ref. Plane that is in turn driven by a Labeled Dimension. 

...Keep in mind that Group/Arrayed Elements lose their Associations. 

...Some other Group Best Practices to keep in mind:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/EN...

[Lachlan-JWP]

Ah, I guess memory lets me down again.

Thanks for looking into it for me. I've run with the file bin uploaded and it's doing the job nicely. I've got the centre stack lines locked to a reference plan which is dimensioned to the centreline of the family. This makes it look like it does grow from the centre as you described.