Graphic Display issue from Nested Family within Window Family in section

[denise.jonker]

I am currently overhauling our companies window library. And I have created a window family that consists of the following:

•  Main frame and the voids to cut holes in the wall
  Consisting of simple extrusions
• Nested family for the panels with different buil-in options for fixed and swinging
  Consisting of simple extrusions

In the plan views, the display show the nested families correctly: they appear to 'cut' the main frame in the way they are supposed to.

In the sections, however, it displays differently. Here the display doesn't give me the desired panel-cuts-mainframe look. It still shows the lines from the main frame over the panel frame.

My aim is to create a flexible window family where my colleagues can easily change panels from fixed, to exterior swinging, interior swinging, etc. 

My initial thought was to create a void within the nested family. But trial and error taught me that this void won't actually end up cutting anything in the main window family... A google search showed me that indeed, voids in nested families will not cut anything (would save SO much trouble if it did).

I am trying to avoid having to make voids in the parent family for every possible configuration of panels.

Is there a way to get the display of panels in the section looking the same as in the plans? Or any other work around?

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

@denise.jonker 

Without having the family to look at, the nested panel cannot be cut as a child except if you have deliberately used a face based void or if you have pre-cut it before nesting...Therefore, I would say that in the plan views, masking regions have been used ie: it appears to you as if the frame is cut when it is actually masked. 

If you want the same in section views, then follow the same principle. Otherwise:

1. Either add a parametric Pre-cut to the panel before nesting
2. Or cut the nested panels with a nested face based void (a hassel to lock)
3. Or Join geometry of nested Panel with a solid extrusion on an invisible sub-category

Considering all of the above, I think using masking regions and nested detail components would be the easier workflow

[barthbradley]

Just throwing this into your sandbox for your consideration...

You can manually cut Host Wall in Project (via Cut Geometry) with an unattached Void that is a Nested Shared Family if "Cuts with Voids when Loaded" is checked in that Family.  

So basically, don't Cut Host Wall in Window (Wall-Based) Parent Family with the Nested Family Void. Instead, Cut the Host Wall in the Project. 

Have fun!  

[ToanDN]

What is the cutting mechanism between the nested windows and the frame or they simply overlap?

[denise.jonker]

Thank you for your reply!

I've added the family here. It is not the nested family that needs to look like it is cut, but the 'host' family that holds just the window frame. The interesting thing is that I needed no masked regions to get the desired look in the plan view. (I did add a masked region to create a dilatation space between the frame and the panel). 

I agree with you that using nested detail components would probably be the easiest workflow. 

I am just wondering why it shows one way in the plan views, and another in sections. I am curious to hear your thoughts on this.

[denise.jonker]

Thanks for your reply! I am aware of this. I prefer this method though, because it is one less action step for every window placement. 

I am curious to hear what reasons there are for one to choose your method over the one I applied! What are the benefits of your suggested method?

[denise.jonker]

There is no cutting mechanism in place. They simply overlap. Yet it displays as desired in plans and not in sections.

[RDAOU]

@denise.jonker 

Then it depends ob which category you have used to model the panels (cuttable vs not cuttable) and the Special View Range properties of Insert Families (The nested Family follows its own View Range)...IE: In plan view the CUT profile of the Panel will be higher than that of the Frame and subsequently masking it. This is applicable in Plan view (View Range) it is not applicable in sections 

As mentioned in previous reply...it is best to use either of the three methods rather than letting graphics randomly dependent on the order of overlapping geometries 

I'm not in the office...I will have a look at it when I am back.

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

@denise.jonker 

I had a look at the family and as mentioned previously, the geometry is not cut. The masking effect is due to the different height of Cut Planes between Fenster and Flügel

In plan view of the parent family (Fenster) the geometry of the nested child (Flügel) obscures the frame due to the following reason:

• The cut plane of the nested Panel family (Flügel) is @ 400mm from the Ref Ebene. (or the Ref Plane "Bottom")

• The cut plane in the parent window family (Fenster) is @ 1000mm

Given the offset elevation of the Flügel from the Ref. Ebene of the Fenster Familie, the actual Cut of the panel in plan view is @ 1290mm from the Ref. Ebene while the Window Frame in the Fenster Familie is @1000mm...therefore the masking effect

[denise.jonker]

Thanks so much for the quick reply!

It is very helpful to know the reason why it displays as desired in the plans. I am curious if you know of a way to 'cheat' the display for sections in the same way? But I am guessing the answer to that is no. And the way to go is in the 3 solutions you mentioned before...

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

@denise.jonker 

As mentioned ... Sections views has a Fixed Cut plane (where the section marker is placed) + Depth... That cannot be cheated to work like the cut plane in view range of plan views.

There is a way to cheat it by using Non-cuttable families, double nesting and shared families...BUT why would anyone want to go through a whole lots of trouble when a simple Void Cut or Masking region would solve the issue in the section views!

[denise.jonker]

Agreed! I will go with masked regions and detail items for my family, as you suggested. Thank you so much for your help and clear answers. It find it's always great to have an understanding of why certain things work the way they do. And you have provided me with great insights on that.

[m.capitummino]

Hi everybody,
I cannot solve this graphical issue: 
A window family made by:
- a Window Frame (Sweep based on a rectangular Family Profile)
-a nested Panel (a Window category whose profile is realized again as a sweep based on a rectangular Family Profile) 

In Revit Model environment, the behavior of the windows and its visualization in Plan View works properly, when is cut,

but the SHADOWS are completely wrong: the panel is not cut, and moreover the Window frame shadow is not visible: you can see in the shadow a gap between the panel and the wall. If I remove the nested panel from the family, the frame shadow works properly instead.

Any suggestion?

[denise.jonker]

It looks to me like the Window Frame geometry has been turned off for plan views.

If this doesn't solve your problem: Could you post the Window Family so I can have a look inside the family itself and see if I can fix the issue for you?

[m.capitummino]

Hi Denise, thank you for your prompt reply.
I have actually defined the View Settings for any element/ nested part of the window.
Please find below the Rvt family file.
I look forward to hearing from you.
thanks

[denise.jonker]

I've had a look at your family and, for as far as I can tell, the problem does not lie within your family. So I did some digging (love myself a good Revit problem). Turns out this is probably a Revit issue. Revit windows aren't technically 'cuttable'. This is why the shadows displayed in plan view are off. Some people work around this issue by creating windows in a Generic Family template. See this thread for further discussion on the topic:

https://www.revitforum.org/node/31643

A workaround that I found worked for your family is to create a 3D view with a section box at the desired height, and set it so that you look at it from the top as if it would be floor plan:

I would be very interested to hear if @ToanDN has some further insights on this issue, as he is somewhat of a Revit genius and always seems to know the causes of little known issues and provides brilliant workarounds.

Hope this helps!