GPU/CPU setup advice

[vblevin]

I'm trying to decide between 2 different cpu/gpu combos.

My models are under 200mb, and I'd like to start using rendering programs like D5

1. Ryzen 9900x and GeForce RTX 4070 Super

2. Ryzen 9950x and Nvidia RTX A2000

Any advice?

[HVAC-Novice]

If you don't use other applications requiring many cores, the Ryzen 9900 (12-core/5.6 GHz) would be more economical over the 9950 (16-core/5.7 GHz).  Revit still requires single core use, so boost clock is important. Only some features use multiple cores, hopefully that improves in the future. 

Make sure the Motherboard supports PBO and you have a good cooler and well ventilated case. Ryzen are pretty efficient, though.

The 4070 super is quite a bit more powerful than the A2000. Both will be sufficient if you are not rendering, though. Make sure each option has enough VRAM. Both are designed for 12GB, which I think is a good minimum. Especially on 4K monitors. But better double-check if the specific manufacturer (Asus, MSI or whoever) provides 12GB.

Make sure you get enough and fast RAM. Not knowing your projects, but seeing the CPU, get 64GB of 6000/CL30 or better. Use 2x32GB sticks (not four, four sticks has difficulty at higher speeds). 

Either option will be great and I'm jealous (and happy for you) you are able to get an adequate computer. I'm running Revit on a potato and I hate the spinning wheel.... 

[_Vijay]

Try this one : NXTGN Core I9 12th Generation Gaming/Editing/Trading Desktop PC (12900K CPU, Liquid C...

[HVAC-Novice]

Ha ha, "Cutting-Edge Performance: Powered by the latest 12th Gen Core i9-12900K"  with a CPU that was released in 2021. 

That is really bad advice. First, Intel is far behind AMD, and the 12th generation you linked is 3 generations old. And intel only has 8 actual (P) cores. The remainder aren't powerful at all (slower, and no hyperthreading etc.). If you have an application (besides Revit) that requires many cores, those 12 or 16 core Ryzen CPUs will run circles around the intel consumer grade CPU with only 8 performance cores. Especially one from 4 years ago. If you use Intel and need multi-threading capability, you have to step up to Xenon 3000- series. 

That 4060 it comes with only has 8GB VRAM. And they don't list any specs on what RAM speed they use, or what SSD they use. It can be crap like 4800/CL 50 and a QLC-NAND SSD.... since they don't mention what it is, it likely is NOT 6000/CL30 and a Samsung 990Pro. 

I also wouldn't buy liquid cooling for a production machine. Especially not a no-name product. Those fail over time (pump failure, liquid evaporates). An AMD Ryzen 16-core can be cooled with a $40 air cooler comfortably. 

Also not sure what country OP is from. So recommending a specific product and linking to a  vendor is hard. 

[vblevin]

Yeah. Vijays suggested machine is outdated...

Do you think its worth paying $250 more for the 9950X instead of the 9900X?

Same thing with the GPU. Do I need a car that goes 150 MPH  when the speed limit is 60?

I'm getting the system from Digital Storm (BTW)

[HVAC-Novice]

Which series are you getting? Looks like the Aventum X? 

What other applications do you use? i use a Revit plugin for lighting calcs (Elum tools) and that scales well with 12+ cores. 

At least they tell you RAM speed (but not the timings...) I would inquire about that. Also inquire about what SSD that is. At minimum make sure the SSD has DRAM. Look slike they jsut put their sticker on. Looks like it is PCIe 3.0 only an uses TLC NAND. All newer SSD sue PCIe 4 or even 5. It doesn't list TBW. i doubt it uses DRAM This looks like a very outdated $90 SSD (2TB).  I wouldn't buy that, not even for a spare PC. It won't do sustained writing well at all. 

You can buy the prime of the prime Samsung 990 Pro 2TB for $160 or an SK Hynix P41 for a bit less. They have DRAM and SLC cache. They run circles around what DigitalStorm put their sticker on. 

Are you saving the local Revit file to the local drive? If so, you want a fast SSD. 

I don't know if you need the glass panel... but I would be very concerned about the water loop. It is a custom loop and you will need to maintain it. it also isn't clear what components they use. No-name water loop in a PC sounds like a disaster. A $40 Thermalright Peerless Assassin air cooler can cool the Ryzen CPUs well. You really only need water-cooling for Intel. 

Since it looks you don't have to go through an IT department, I would build the PC myself, or find a local shop who does custom builds. It really is not that hard and you know what components you get and can get an air cooler and skip all the RGB lighting. It is up to you, some people care about RG lighting and think it gives them a 15% performance boost. Especially red lighting, since red is the fastest color. 

If you price out to build the same PC yourself, you will find you can get the same (or better in case of SSD) components for $2-2.5K. Most shops would charge a $150 build fee. 

I also would be concerned about the no-name PSU. Over all my years of building PCs (and I keep them a long time), I've never seen failures, except PSU failures. I now only buy PSUs that are very high quality with 10 year warranty. PSU are kind of an invisible component and never get talked about. But they are the most important component. Make sure the PSU at least ha all the protection features implemented properly (many don't!). So if it dies, it at least doesn't kill the rest of the components. A cheap PSU is the most expensive hardware you can buy. 

What is the warranty they offer? Because parts I would select typically come with 5 year (SSD, motherboard etc.) warranty, or 10 year (PSU). Looks like they offer 3 years. You are better off using a local shop since they can support you faster without shipping the PC around. Or DIY. They say they replace parts under warranty within 60 days. Is that acceptable to you? if I had to wait 60 days (plus shipping time), I rather pay for the new part out of pocket for a private PC. I assume you use this for billable work... So again, aren't you better off DIYing or using a local shop? In my home I have multiple PCs and a spare PSU, just in case. If something happens, I can keep rolling while I order new parts or get RMA. 

https://www.digitalstorm.com/warranty.asp

[vblevin]

It's actually the Velox Pro (don't waste your time looking). I appreciate all the advice.

I priced all the components for a self build and it costs more (including the fee to get it put together).

Not discounting all the things you said, my two biggest decisions now is whether to go with the 9900x or 9950x, and the RTX A2000 or the RTX 4070 Super.

I don't want to overspend if the extra power is just going to sit there idle.

[HVAC-Novice]

If Revit is your main application, the 9900x is sufficient. 

On GPU, this depends on if you do a lot of stuff with realistic view and rendering. If so, faster=better. If you don't, the cheaper one is fine. I'd consider future projects and add a few more $ now. 

I'm not exactly able to replicate what you said in their builder. But unless you include the high cost of a custom water loop and whatever that case is, I don't see how you pay for parts more than from them. The 4070 super is a $600 GPU, the Ryzen 9900X is $400. Maybe $200-300 for the MB. That PSU they give you is a $50 PSU, Their RAM is $150, and the SSD is $90 (if we are generous). Am I missing something they include? 

You do know you have to maintain custom water loops and replace the fluid? Non-maintainable (sealed) AIO water coolers have a typical life of 5 years and need complete replacement upon failure. And failure will stop your PC and shuts it down on over-heat. A large air cooler works (for just simple work) even if a fan fails and a fan is easily replaced. Besides the cost, reliability would be a concern with water cooling. 

[vblevin]

Will this fan suffice?

Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black

Here's a comparison between custom and pre-built.

Almost the same.

CUSTOM BUILD

Prices from Amazon (New Egg almost the same)

Fractal North Case: $139

Thermaltake  850W gold: $90

Samsung 990 pro SSD 1TB: $120

240MM AIO: 140

ASUS Prime B650M-A AX6 II0 MB: $150

Kingston Fury Beast 64 GB: $216

Ryzen 9 9900X: $410

Asus 4070 super: $650

Windows 11 Pro: $160

Build: $350

Total: $2,358

DIGITAL STORM

Chassis Model: Digital Storm Corsa PRO Workstation <br><strong></strong>

 AMD Ryzen 9 9900X (12-Core) 5.6 GHz Turbo (Zen 5)

ASUS Prime B650M-A AX6 II (Wi-Fi) (AMD B650) (Up to 3x PCI-E Devices) (DDR5)

 64GB DDR5 6000MT/s Kingston FURY RGB

Power Supply: 750W Digital Storm Performance Series (80 Plus Gold)

1x SSD M.2 (1TB Samsung 990 PRO) (NVM Express)

1x GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER 12GB (VR Ready)

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: Digital Storm Vortex Liquid CPU Cooler (Triple Fan) (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)

Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Professional (64-Bit)

Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)

Total: $2,318 + TAX

[ToanDN]

GPU:

RTX A2000 is a low-end workstation GPU while GeForce RTX 4070 super is a upper-mid gaming GPU.  Unless you can get the A2000 at less than 1/2 the cost of the 4070, I would go with the 4070 every time this comparison is mentioned.

CPU: the cost difference does not justify the added performance, IMHO.

[HVAC-Novice]

Did you verify with them that the SSD they provide is the 990Pro? A $350 build fee seems steep. You may be able to shop around locally, especially if you want local support. I would DIY since it is a satisfying work and takes less than an hour. but really depends on your comfort level. 

Keep in mind, the OS they give you is an OEM version you are not able or allowed to use on a different hardware. The one you buy yourself, is transferrable. You also can use W11 without activating. 

the Noctua cooler is great. but a Peerless Assassin  will be 95% as good and sufficient for under $40. 

It isn't clear if the Kingston RAM they use, is the very same you quoted from Newegg. There are many sub-variants, and often the timing (the CL30 I mentioned is the first word latency) will be much higher (=slower). 

I would look on pcpartspicker what cheaper RAM is that is on the motherboard compatibility list (QVL). They start at $150 it looks, but may be $200 for RAM from QVL (this isn't required, though). Here the QVL for the MB you picked.

I use pcpartspicker to compare prices. Sometimes the 2TB Samsung 990 Pro with heat spreader can be had for $160. So from $120 for 1TB, this seems to be an easy upgrade. Note that SSD get slower as they fill up. Larger = better. You also can check specific hardware on linustechtips forum. Propose a list on partspicker, share it with them and someone will give you a much better/cheaper list.

They also have a really great PSU section with insiders who know what is good. Pcpastspicker also gives you a power estimate for the components you select. for PSU there really are only a few manufacturers and everyone just slaps their label on. You need to read reviews or get advice from forums what is actually good on the long run. This isn't up to date, but a good start. Don't buy a PSU on the C or lower level. 

My goto recommendation for a case (and that is subjective) in performance systems is the Fractal Torrent Compact for $140. it comes with two 180mm fans and cools the system quietly. My computers sit behind the desk, I don't care about looks. YMMV. 

I'm surprised they call their water cooling "sealed". I guess it technically is. But it looks like it has a lot of fittings. Usually AIO have just a hose from cooler to radiator to avoid leaks. I'm curious how one takes the water cooling out or apart when you have to replace the SSD, or something else. 

That probably as much advice i can give. I lean a lot on the fine folks at Linustechtips. or other forums. EVeryone buying a PC will know CPU, GPU, size of SSD and amount of RAM. but then it stops and and all details get lost. 

[vblevin]

Thanks for the advice!

[vblevin]

Thank you for all your help!

[azad.Nanva]

do you family with UserBenchmark site?

4070 172% better , this is really amazing.

and

9950 is 1% better :

if i was ,i use RTX 4070,this is really faster.

[RDAOU]

@vblevin 

If this post is discussing tech, the 4070 Super was released in January 2024 and is based on the Ada Lovelace architecture, which was great. However, NVIDIA is set to release the RTX 50 series in a couple of weeks The new series based on the Blackwell architecture which is equiped with the 4th generation Ray Tracing core. You probably do not need it in your line of work but it doesn't make sense to go for the 4070 Super today. If not for the price drop at least for having the chance to reconcider. Unless it's urgent, I would wait till after the release date, even if I still plan to get the 4070 Super.

If the question is whether either of these configurations can handle a 200MB model in Revit and the use of rendering applications such as Twinmotion, V-Ray, or Lumion, the answer is yes, both can do so relatively easily, though one may perform better than the other. In a few couple of years? maybe the RTX A2000 is not a good choice. I would say go for 9900 + 4070 Super and if you are willing to shell out an extra 200$ go for the 9950X + 4070

FWIW...Mixing a higher-end CPU with a lower-end GPU (or vice versa) usually doesn't yield the best results. This approach compromises both performance and cost-efficiency.

Edit: and if you are ordering from amazon make sure the seller is considering the potential rough handling by Amazon Delivery 

[vblevin]

Thanks, this is very helpful.

Do you know if or think that the 5070 will perform better than the 4070 Super?

[RDAOU]

@vblevin 

its a new architecture using the fourth-generation RT cores and fifth-generation Tensor cores, which technically should offer advanced improvements in ray tracing performance and AI processing capabilities. Moreover, as per Nvidia's announcement, it is built on a more advanced 3nm process vs the 4nm of the RTX40 series  which means it should more energy efficienu and higher transistor density => more performance gains and reduced power consumption.

So just based on the numbers yes it should be significantly better in terms of performance. I personally am not a tech influencer so I do not get any of Nvidias test GPU to review online but there are a few on Youtube ... One can only tell for sure when one gets hold of one and put it to a benchmark and stress test.

Pricewise though the 5070 is expected to be starting from 550$ and the 5070Ti 750$ which is nearly the same what you are paying for the 4070 S today... based on the reviews, it is worth waiting a few weeks

Edit: 750Watts for the 4070/R9950X is at the lower average. Do not go for anything below 900-1000W (when stressed, your system will need every extra Watt it can get)  A rough estimate based on what you posted from amazon without any fancy nancy case rgb pimping, not under stress, it adds up to ca. 600-650 Watts consumption. A 750 PSU I would consider average

CPU: 240W
GPU: 250W
CPU Cooler Fans: 20W
RAM: 20W
Case Fans: 30W
Motherboard: 50-80W

See review here

I Was The FIRST To Game On The RTX 5090 - NVIDIA 50 Series Announcement

[HVAC-Novice]

You are right that in a while there will be better hardware and possibly better prices for current hardware. But that is always the case. this is why I still use an abacus... because I always wait for the next week to buy electronics when there is something better.

There also could be high prices initially for the 5000 series GPU due to the high demand. 

And while we are speculating, and if OP is in the US, there is rumor in the industry that the proposed tariffs could increase prices for complete PC by 30-40%. Obviously no one knows when, and how exactly this will happen, and it depends what country your parts are made in. 

I mean, if you need a PC today , and you use it for billable work, it is cheaper to buy today than in 3 months for a bit less. 

who knows... if i knew, I would be trading stocks or crypto. 

[RDAOU]

Its not speculations prices of hardware are not like stocks or crypto and yes there will always be new and better hardware but when one knows the release date is in 2 weeks, one doesn't usually rush in to buy the older model before its depreciated.

Moreover, the starting prices have been announced. The prices going marginally up due to demand is normal but shooting up 40% is not expected. Looking back at the release of the RTX 40 series back in Jan 24, the prices did not shoot like they did with the RTX30 series when the mining business was at its peek. Not to mention that I was not trying to suggest that the op buys the 4070, I was saying wait because the release day is just 2 weeks 😉

[vblevin]

 I see RDAOU's point, but like you said if you're always waiting then you'll never move forward.

For my practical purposes I don't need the latest, greatest and fastest GPU

I'm even considering getting a $300 RTX 3060 and hope it performs.

I wish I could find someone with my similar workflow who can say "I have an RTX ____ and it performs like this ____"

Revit is my main focus so the CPU is most important, but when I do want to render a design with landscaping, people, etc I dont want to wait long for the render process.

And this is my dilemma with the GPU. If my design renders in 30 second with the RTX 4070 super, and 1 min with the RTX 3060, I'll spend the extra $$.

But I dont know that to be the case.

In the end of the day, it's a couple of hundred $$, and I might as well err on the side of caution, I guess...

On the flip side, why get a NASCAR race car to drive 2 miles to the supermarket.