Freeform massing

[ToanDN]

How would you build a free form massing similar to this one?  I drew a series of contour splines on various levels and select them to create form in massing environment but Revit fails every time.  The splines are not too complex, about 15 points each and seemingly smooth, no sharp turns or anything like that.

[ToanDN]

How would you build a free form massing similar to this one?  I drew a series of contour splines on various levels and select them to create form in massing environment but Revit fails every time.  The splines are not too complex, about 15 points each and seemingly smooth, no sharp turns or anything like that.

[constantin.stroescu]

hi ToanDN

I had such an experience before and making some test I came to the conclusion that Revit works better in this kind of cases if you begin with a simple volume and alterate it after....as I did show in an older post...

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture/how-to-model-organic-froms-in-revit/m-p/6049516#M10...

[constantin.stroescu]

hi ToanDN

I had such an experience before and making some test I came to the conclusion that Revit works better in this kind of cases if you begin with a simple volume and alterate it after....as I did show in an older post...

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture/how-to-model-organic-froms-in-revit/m-p/6049516#M10...

[ToanDN]

Thank you, Constantin!
I will look at your tutorial first thing I get to Revit. It sounds very promising.

[ToanDN]

Thank you, Constantin!
I will look at your tutorial first thing I get to Revit. It sounds very promising.

[ToanDN]

Can someone explain why I was unable to cut the solid with a void in this in-place mass?  Thanks.

2016 file attached.

[ToanDN]

Can someone explain why I was unable to cut the solid with a void in this in-place mass?  Thanks.

2016 file attached.

[constantin.stroescu]

It's difficult to know where the problem could be...I suggest , if you want a carving from outside ( as seems to be in your case , to work with Edited Profile as shown in my screencast attached

If you want an inside hole - as a tunnel, then you have to use Voids and if  the shapes are too cluttered then you can make the void by segments - selecting a group of shapes and then another till the end...

[constantin.stroescu]

It's difficult to know where the problem could be...I suggest , if you want a carving from outside ( as seems to be in your case , to work with Edited Profile as shown in my screencast attached

If you want an inside hole - as a tunnel, then you have to use Voids and if  the shapes are too cluttered then you can make the void by segments - selecting a group of shapes and then another till the end...

[RDAOU]

@ToanDN

When you create the geometry the way u did, it is not literally a mass...it is a combination of massed surfaces (top, bottom and ends) and not a solid mass. That is to say, e core of that serpent like zigzag shaped shell is hollow on the inside => the void cannot cut it.

you can do either of the following:

1. shape the profile as @constantin.stroescu did and that will give u the hollow tunnel like effect (yet the geometry will remain hollow - i.e. not solid filled)
2. sweep a profile along those paths which you created using the points and reference/model lines. Then the void can cut it and you will have a solid geometry

[RDAOU]

@ToanDN

When you create the geometry the way u did, it is not literally a mass...it is a combination of massed surfaces (top, bottom and ends) and not a solid mass. That is to say, e core of that serpent like zigzag shaped shell is hollow on the inside => the void cannot cut it.

you can do either of the following:

1. shape the profile as @constantin.stroescu did and that will give u the hollow tunnel like effect (yet the geometry will remain hollow - i.e. not solid filled)
2. sweep a profile along those paths which you created using the points and reference/model lines. Then the void can cut it and you will have a solid geometry

[ToanDN]

I created the solid form by selecting a series of closed profiles at the
grid lines. I swear I did cut it using a simple void form successfully.
But when I finished the mass and edited it again, I can't cut it anymore.
But I take a look again tomorrow. Thanks for your reply.
--

-Toan

[ToanDN]

I created the solid form by selecting a series of closed profiles at the
grid lines. I swear I did cut it using a simple void form successfully.
But when I finished the mass and edited it again, I can't cut it anymore.
But I take a look again tomorrow. Thanks for your reply.
--

-Toan

[RDAOU]

@ToanDN

All good 🙂 enjoy the weekend

Reply above is based on what I saw in Constantin's screencast (no pc with Revit available around lol)...I will give the revit file you attached a look when I have access to a pc with Revit 🙂 maybe I could then produce a screencast

One thing I missed though... IF both geometries, the void and the solid, were swept profiles (ie: solid mass) ... Is the bottom of the void just grazing the bottom of the solid? It appears from @constantin.stroescu screencast that the bottom of the voids profile on one end is just below the that of the Solid While at the other end it is same level with the bottom of the solid mass.

Edit: 

It can be that the bottom of the void is not totally levels => it is sometimes cutting the bottom of the solid mass and sometimes not... to the extent that those cuts are too small and Revit cannot keep them joined...In such case;

1. Either extend the void well below the solid mass to be cut (ie: after you create the void, select it and hit the down arrow key a couple of times and see how it goes. If it cuts then that would be the problem - when you edited the mass you might have misaligned the void)
2. OR embed the void completely in the mass

[RDAOU]

@ToanDN

All good 🙂 enjoy the weekend

Reply above is based on what I saw in Constantin's screencast (no pc with Revit available around lol)...I will give the revit file you attached a look when I have access to a pc with Revit 🙂 maybe I could then produce a screencast

One thing I missed though... IF both geometries, the void and the solid, were swept profiles (ie: solid mass) ... Is the bottom of the void just grazing the bottom of the solid? It appears from @constantin.stroescu screencast that the bottom of the voids profile on one end is just below the that of the Solid While at the other end it is same level with the bottom of the solid mass.

Edit: 

It can be that the bottom of the void is not totally levels => it is sometimes cutting the bottom of the solid mass and sometimes not... to the extent that those cuts are too small and Revit cannot keep them joined...In such case;

1. Either extend the void well below the solid mass to be cut (ie: after you create the void, select it and hit the down arrow key a couple of times and see how it goes. If it cuts then that would be the problem - when you edited the mass you might have misaligned the void)
2. OR embed the void completely in the mass

[constantin.stroescu]

If you need an interior hollow and not a carving , then, probably the Void solution is the good one...

My first thought was ,also, as RDAOU says, that you've created a mesh not a solid, but it proves to be a real solid....

I don't know what could be the problem. There are sure problems with Self Intersecting Geometry , because you have some abrupt turning points and your (Void) profiles are quite large and they do intersect in those areas...

I've tried to complete your mass , and I didn't receive the message that appears in your screenshot. It was only a message that draw attention to self intersecting .....then , I had to make smaller profiles (maybe a little to small)

[constantin.stroescu]

If you need an interior hollow and not a carving , then, probably the Void solution is the good one...

My first thought was ,also, as RDAOU says, that you've created a mesh not a solid, but it proves to be a real solid....

I don't know what could be the problem. There are sure problems with Self Intersecting Geometry , because you have some abrupt turning points and your (Void) profiles are quite large and they do intersect in those areas...

I've tried to complete your mass , and I didn't receive the message that appears in your screenshot. It was only a message that draw attention to self intersecting .....then , I had to make smaller profiles (maybe a little to small)

[RDAOU]

Edit - nevermind 🙂 someone getting me my laptop

[RDAOU]

Edit - nevermind 🙂 someone getting me my laptop

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

The void’s profile (bottom) is slightly misaligned with the bottom level of the solid mass. Once nudged down once/twice it appears to cut with no issues.

Best would be if you use reference planes ... one horizontal to set bottom of the void and vertical planes onto which you sketch the profile of the void (instead of those vertical walls which you have in the attached model)

BUT...this has nothing to do with your original error message...that is related to the void or it's profile which you have created (not found in your attached revit file) and that still relates to the previous reply where the void used was being used to either cut a non-solid mass or a pre-cut solid mass.

Being unable to recreate what you did to get the error...maybe you can redo it and EXPAND the error to check the Element ID in question. I would say most probably it was trying to cut one of the other masses in the model...Example: see image below from you model...such elements are only a mesh surface and you would get the same error you had if you try to cut them using voids

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

The void’s profile (bottom) is slightly misaligned with the bottom level of the solid mass. Once nudged down once/twice it appears to cut with no issues.

Best would be if you use reference planes ... one horizontal to set bottom of the void and vertical planes onto which you sketch the profile of the void (instead of those vertical walls which you have in the attached model)

BUT...this has nothing to do with your original error message...that is related to the void or it's profile which you have created (not found in your attached revit file) and that still relates to the previous reply where the void used was being used to either cut a non-solid mass or a pre-cut solid mass.

Being unable to recreate what you did to get the error...maybe you can redo it and EXPAND the error to check the Element ID in question. I would say most probably it was trying to cut one of the other masses in the model...Example: see image below from you model...such elements are only a mesh surface and you would get the same error you had if you try to cut them using voids

[ToanDN]

You are correct. Moving the void down did the trick. If not, I got the same error which I think is misleading. The imported mesh was there but was not part of the mass so I don't think it was causing trouble within the mass editing environment.
Thanks again.

[ToanDN]

You are correct. Moving the void down did the trick. If not, I got the same error which I think is misleading. The imported mesh was there but was not part of the mass so I don't think it was causing trouble within the mass editing environment.
Thanks again.