Fix Bug - Family Geometry broken when rotated

Fix Bug - Family Geometry broken when rotated

Anonymous
Not applicable
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Message 1 of 46

Fix Bug - Family Geometry broken when rotated

Anonymous
Not applicable

When rotating family geometry, it often breaks the whole assembly. There's no apparent logical reason for this, it just makes it really hard to fix broken or develop new families. Please fix this issue. Rotating things should not break them, especially when using the "disjoin" button.

 

Broken Family.gif

 

I can say with certainty that Autodesk has broken many families in America. Let's stop the social damage.

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Replies (45)
Message 21 of 46

gsucci
Collaborator
Collaborator

Yeah, so far I don't see any unexpected behavior (if you are trying to rotate a wall based family in plan).

 

Could you tell us what is the final result you are trying to achieve? A drinking fountain 90 degree to the wall it is installed onto? Then, maybe you need a little piece of wall 90 degree to the main one?

 

Regards

 

Gio

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Message 22 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

@ToanDN That's not the part I'm trying to rotate. Have a look at the initila GIF. I'm saying that when rotating vanila elements, they break, which is a huge pain if you're trying to do a good old family. This was just one of many instances where the "bg" is apparent.

 

If this is normal behavior, I'd love to see the logical explanation why rotation break once it has been disjoined, ideally from the Revit documentation. Something like: "Modeled elements can only be rotated once the plane they were created on, otherwise they will break".

 

I'll create sub families to rotate discrete elements as suggested, but I feel it's a useless step to go around a bug/majorWeakness in the software.

 

prisoner-being-dragged-down-corridor-picture-id88622062.jpg

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Message 23 of 46

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous wrote:

That's not the part I'm trying to rotate. Have a look at the initila GIF. I'm saying that when rotating vanila elements, they break, which is a huge pain if you're trying to do a good old family. This was just one of many instances where the "bg" is apparent.

 

If this is normal behavior, I'd love to see the logical explanation why rotation break once it has been disjoined, ideally from the Revit documentation. Something like: "Modeled elements can only be rotated once the plane they were created on, otherwise they will break".

 

I'll create sub families to rotate discrete elements as suggested, but I feel it's a useless step to go around a bug/majorWeakness in the software.

 

 


I can't figure out what part of the family that you show in the GIF.  They don't look the same.  Care to clarify?

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Message 24 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

@ToanDN This is the part of the model I rotated. Just a bunch of extrusions.

 

Fam.jpg

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Message 25 of 46

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous; I'm with @ToanDN; I'm confused by what your gif shows vs what your rfa shows. I can't find a corresponding view in the rfa that looks like your gif. 

 

Beyond that, HOW do you want to rotate the 5 extrusions that make up the service box under the fountains -- and, WHY do you want to rotate them? There's only one as-built orientation for this service box, and that's the one that it is currently in. 

 

Additionally, if you want to manipulate the 5 extrusions as a whole and separate component, why not make it a separate family called something like "Fountain Service Box" and then nest it. Why are you so opposed to that? After all, the fountain family is nested.  

 

Anyways, I'm trying to understand what you think is a bug. 

 

 

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Message 26 of 46

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

Same reason as I already said earlier.  The extrusion was drawn on a surface of a wall as the work plane.  It can only rotate around the Z axiz of that plane.  You cannot break that rule.  If you want to rotate it from a floor plan view, then draw it using the level or a horizontal reference plane as the work plane.

 

Capture.PNG 

 

Below is an example of the extrusions I created using a horizontal face as the work plane.  They can rotate without any problems.  Still, the recommended and bullet proof workflow is create that piece of equipment as a separate family, the same way you did for the fountain above.  Constrain all the parts of that equipment within that family so that when you nest it in the parent family, you can move, rotate, flip the whole thing without headaches.

 

Capture1.PNG

Message 27 of 46

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

Was trying to included the screencast in the previous post but I forgot and the 30 min. editing window ran out.

 

 

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Message 28 of 46

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

...a dyslexic contractor must have installed that one, @ToanDN. I'd leave the family alone and hire a different contractor. Just saying.... 

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Message 29 of 46

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

Inmates would love to have that feature in their prison.

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Message 30 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

@barthbradley 

 

Beyond that, HOW do you want to rotate the 5 extrusions that make up the service box under the fountains -- and, WHY do you want to rotate them? There's only one as-built orientation for this service box, and that's the one that it is currently in. 

 

Additionally, if you want to manipulate the 5 extrusions as a whole and separate component, why not make it a separate family called something like "Fountain Service Box" and then nest it. Why are you so opposed to that? After all, the fountain family is nested. 

 

Forget about the family and nested families, this is about rotating raw geometry, that was indeed created on different refference planes. I need to do this to fix families without recreating them altogether. All my families are face based, so I need to convert families I find on the internet to a proper host. So for a wall based family like this (this was an extremely crappy family btw), I need to rotate it so that it faces the proper host.

 

I understand why you could not rotate a plane based family, but an extrusion? You should be able to rotate that any **** way you want, unless there is a logical reason that is written somewhere that can appease my logical mind. Disjoining should also remove any reliance on the original host, no?

 

@ToanDN The video shows rotation on the plan workplane, I was trying to rotate from a side elevatin view. Picked the new Left/Right Workplane and rotated and it breaks the geometry. I also tried grouping but it had the same effect.

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Message 31 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

@ToanDN

 

The extrusion was drawn on a surface of a wall as the work plane.  It can only rotate around the Z axiz of that plane.  You cannot break that rule. 

 

Where does it explain this in the documentation? Why are the results always so different, it works 90% of the time? I cannot understand why it breaks the family in this way. Why would disjoin not break that initial refference plane?

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Message 32 of 46

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous wrote:

 

 

The video shows rotation on the plan workplane, I was trying to rotate from a side elevatin view. Picked the new Left/Right Workplane and rotated and it breaks the geometry. I also tried grouping but it had the same effect.


Same principle.  If you want to rotate them from a side elevation view, then they must be created based on work plane parallel to the side elevation view.  Or, you can rotate the work planes instead of the geometry and anything hosted on those work planes will rotate accordingly.

 

Capture.PNG

 

If you want to rotate the geometry with Disjoined then you need to accept some, if not all, constraints will be lost for future revision.

 

Capture.PNG

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Message 33 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

What about once is has been unhosted? Like the file I've attached, we know it was created on the X axis but it no longer remembers it's reference plane. This is the family I should've attached at te beginnning.

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Message 34 of 46

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

I get it, @Anonymous! You are looking for a logical explanation; one that you can wrap your brain around, of why a rule exists in Revit. We are not programmers on this forum; we are users who understand the rules and limitations of the software, and how to work effectively and efficiently within them. If you want to get into the weeds and understand the programming "logic" behind those rules; and why those limitations exist, perhaps the API forum would be more helpful to you. 

Message 35 of 46

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous

 

If the elements are not associated with any workplane then you are free to rotate them.  Were you not able to do it?

 

Capture.PNG

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Message 36 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

I was not able to do it from the side views (front/Back Left/Right) without breaking the family like in the first post.

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Message 37 of 46

ToanDN
Consultant
Consultant

Well, nothing broken here after rotated in any directions.

 

Capture.PNG

 

 

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Message 38 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi @ToanDN I really appreciate your help and patience. Thanks for being as stubborn as me.

 

When I rotate the family 90 or 180 degrees in Left/Right, it automatically breaks for me. Are you using Reivt 2017.2.2?

 

Weirdly enough, rotating 45 degrees does not break it. It's almost as if it gets confused by the extrusion +/- direction once the direction is inverted (up becomes down).

 

 

Rotation.gif

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Message 39 of 46

barthbradley
Consultant
Consultant

are you sure you're using the last rfa you posted; RotationTest.rfa? That one rotates fine in Left and Right views. Revit 2017.2.

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Message 40 of 46

Anonymous
Not applicable

I am sure. I re-downloaded the familly from the forum.

 

If I rotate 90 degrees clockwise it breaks. If I rotate to the other side and it stays intact.

 

 

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