Curved mass surface with curved top

[gccdesign]

In Revit 2021 I would like to make a vertical surface that follows the x/y curves on the path on a level (like level 1). Then I would want to curve the top of the surface in the z axis, but maintaining the surface as vertical.

I have not been able to figure out a way to do that.

[barthbradley]

Go to the Mass Folder in your Library and open and inspect how the "Dome.rfa" was constructed.  Press "Edit Profile" and note the sketch linework.  In particular, note the blue "axis" line hovering above the dome sketch line work. 

Here's some more information and video about creating "revolve" geometry.  Same basic technique the Dome Mass is using.  

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-lt/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2020/ENU/Revi...

[gccdesign]

Barth,

I probably didn't explain what I needed very well.

What I want is to take a vertical surface like this and edit the top to have a cure in the Z axis direction. So that the wall has a curved top but remains vertical.

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

Do you mean a wavy top? If that's what you mean, cut the solid form with a void form. 

If this isn't what you mean, then post a picture showing what you want.  

[gccdesign]

Barth,

Well, this was interesting. The method you mentioned with using a void extrusion works great for the surface. The surface can be based on a spline curve, straight lines, arcs, the void works fine.

The interesting part is when you drop back out of massing and use the architectural wall by face command.

If the original path for the vertical surface was a spline, and all spline, the wall cuts perfectly. Also if the curve used to make the void that cuts the surface is a spline. And it does a real decent job of not making weird side slopes on the tops of the wall, like the side slopes you get if you just cut the wall with a void extrusion. So that is a really easy way to make a curved wall with a curved top that doesn't look all weird.

But if the base path for the vertical surface has straight lines or arcs, then sometimes the wall won't get cut at the top curve of the surface. And also if the curve used to make the void that cuts the mass vertical surface is made with arcs, it also won't cut the top of the wall by face.

So it seems pretty unusable for this purpose except when it's all done with splines.

[martijn_pater]

Depending on what you're after you might not need it to be a mass surface... (edit1: like that...) (edit2: see below for example)

[barthbradley]

Wall by face?  Why don't you just create an Basic Wall and use Attach Top/Base to attach the top of the wall to a wavy/curved roof?  If you don't want to see the roof , just hide it and keep the walls visible in the views.  

[gccdesign]

I tried that as well as you can see in the file I attached. That works well. And I made reference planes perpendicular to the wall where needed work planes in order to make the top of the wall not have side slopes.

The wavy roof method I did was with multiple stations like I might have on a real job to plot the top of the wall elevations. And it can be updated if need be.

But I was looking for a less labor intensive method.

And it looks like for a wall on a spline path, the wall by face works great. But not if it transitions from spline to straight, and not if the path has arcs.

Thanks for the answer on the void.

GChapp

[barthbradley]

[gccdesign]

Barth,

The roof or cutting void method works well except when you have significant portions of the wall that curve to be parallel with the direction of the void or the extrusion of the roof. Then you will get weird side slopes on the top of the wall. Same with the cutting with a roof method if it is just an extruded roof. I've tried those methods before.

Unless I'm missing something here.

Thanks,

GChapp

[barthbradley]

Another way you could do it is with Add Profile to Mass Form.  Instead of creating a Mass Form from a front profile, create a Mass Form from an edge profile, then Create Profiles with that Form and shape those Profiles.

….starts like this:

[bin · Accepted solution]

Try this.

[gccdesign]

This looks very interesting, will explore. It looks like an adaptive point could be placed at each "station" (point along the wall where x, y & z coordinates are given) and the wall location & height can be easily defined and revised if needed.

GChapp

[gccdesign]

bin,

A couple things I don't understand on this example.

How were the adaptive points made to be driving points horizontally?

How are the reference lines made to hold their length to the Z position of the reference point at their top?

Was this started from the generic model adaptive.rft?

I'm just learning about adaptive points for the 1st time, so I don't get it all just by looking at it.

Thanks,

GChapp

[gccdesign]

Umm . . . I answered my 2 questions.

GChapp

[gccdesign]

Bin,

As far as I can tell, this method of the adaptive points with a point and reference line sticking up from it is a very workable solution for a curved wall with a curved top, "when it works".

But it seems that it's very delicate and 75% of the time it can't create the surface.

Especially if you are following a particular line, as would usually be the case on a project.

So unless I'm doing something wrong, it doesn't seem to be worth using.

Maybe it's reliable for 4 points or so, but that isn't what I usually deal with.

GChapp

[gccdesign]

Bin,

I tried more things with this method today.

What I found is that if you place 3 consecutive adaptive points in what Revit thinks are a true arc, then it fails.

Straight lines and splines it considers acceptable. I actually started a support case on this.

But also, if the shape you are trying to align to keeps failing, you can just place a couple of the points and hit escape and it will lay the points out in a straight line. Then you can reposition the points along your path. That method seems quite reliable. You can also use the align tool to snap the adaptive points to a model line or an object in plan view.

You can select an adaptive point in the project and adjust it on the Z axis. So for instance you can follow the edge of a curved & sloped driveway and use it to place a curb.

It doesn't work for sharp corners, but for a curved portion of a wall it's a great solution.

GChapp

[bin]

I tried and it works.

All 4 points are placed on a model line, which is an arc.

[gccdesign]

Bin,

Looks like when it fails and when it doesn't is less predictable than I thought.

The "path to failure" that I was running into before was a straight line and then a tangent arc.

So I am showing several examples. Following that path with 5 points starting in the straight line fails. But following the same path starting at the curved end, exact same point placement, does work.

Following that same path using 7 points works from either direction.

So the issue is narrowed down a bit, but not really nailed down what causes it. It's not just "following an arc" as you noticed.

GChapp

[bin]

Uncheck the Always Vertical option and Flip if required.