Changing project coordinates after MEP work drawn

[Anonymous]

I have a project that was initially started in empty space with no coordinates or anything assigned.  I am now tasked with taking the real world coordinates and applying them to the project in order to have the building in the correct location.  I am struggling with inputting the coordinates correctly but my question for now is, when changing the coordinates, how do I get all the elements already in the model to stick with the building itself? I believe the hosted elements are sticking with it, but things like ductwork are just being stretched insane distances and giving me tons of errors.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[barthbradley]

Are you using Specify Coordinates at Point tool?

[cbcarch]

-Manage>Project Location>Position>Relocate Project. Move to specified point where your coordinates are.

Everything should move.

-I'm also assuming from your description that all the MEP is "live" inside the Arch./Struct. model?  (i.e. not a Linked File?)

[Anonymous]

Yes. At least I attempted it. I'm really not sure I'm doing any of this right. I set the location of the project by using the real world coordinates I received from the surveyor. Then specified the coordinates at that point, but my issue is that when I try to rotate the building in relation to true north, the building rotates, but anything that isn't a hosted element doesn't rotate with it.

[Anonymous]

I am actually with the MEP firm working on this project.  We are the leads so this is kind of over my head and I'm just trying my best to get everything to where it should be. So to answer your question, I have the architectural model linked in to my MEP model.  Should I not be doing it this way? If I move/rotate the architectural model alone will that not leave all the MEP work behind when it gets linked back in?

[barthbradley]

You don't Rotate the building to True North.  This may be the root of your issue.  You set True North angle in Project Base Point.    

[Anonymous]

That's what I was doing.  When I click on the project base point it has the shared site coordinates to input(did that) and then the 'Angle to True North'.  When I change the angle to true north it rotates the building.

Attached are some screenshots of what I'm seeing.

The one titled 'Original' is the current location/rotation of the project.  All elements are in place correctly.

The 'Rotated' picture is what happens when I change the 'Angle to True North' to 320°.  As you can see, the diffusers that are hosted to the ceiling have rotated with the building, but the flex duct connecting to them was stretched out because all of the ductwork didn't move.

Also, you can see that the structural link didn't rotate either, but I'm not concerned with that right now.

[barthbradley]

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles...

[ToanDN]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I have a project that was initially started in empty space with no coordinates or anything assigned.  I am now tasked with taking the real world coordinates and applying them to the project in order to have the building in the correct location.  I am struggling with inputting the coordinates correctly but my question for now is, when changing the coordinates, how do I get all the elements already in the model to stick with the building itself? I believe the hosted elements are sticking with it, but things like ductwork are just being stretched insane distances and giving me tons of errors.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Do you have a Site model or DWG provided by a Civil engineer?  If so, simply link it in, relocate/rotate it to match your building, then acquire coordinate.  There is no need to actually move/rotate you model or project base point.

[barthbradley]

I understood that the OP was trying to set up shared coordinates between the Architectural. Why would MEP need to coordinate with civil? *** Regardless, I'm still puzzled how setting an angle to True North rotates the building.  There's something else going on here.  Entering a value into the PBP's "Angle to True North" doesn't change the Building orientation.  Additionally, the error he's getting, indicates that the building is being rotated.  True North and Project North are only view orientations.  

***trench planning, maybe.  

[ToanDN]

There is no manual entering value for "Angle to True North" needed should he follows the steps I have provided.

[barthbradley]

I don't understand what you saying, @ToanDN. First of all, I understand that the OP has been given point coordinates and an angle to true north, not a file.  But even if he was given a file, he would still need to input the angle to True North manually.  How is that not necessary?  

[SteveKStafford]

You shouldn't, don't need to rotate the building link. It will rotate with your model if you are providing the site information correctly. There are so many (too many) ways to define the building's site position. Once done any plan view can be either True or Project North, see the Orientation parameter in the view's properties.

Each of these tools does some or all of the tasks required:

1. Acquire Coordinates - Depends on a linked file and assumes it has the survey coordinate system defined properly, which is probably not true based on your posts, unless you have the surveyor's dwg.
2. Specify Coordinates at Point  (SPaC)- Click to identify a location in your building that your surveyor has provided site coordinates for and provide the building rotation. You may need to create something you can click on to use it, like a Model Line or a wall element.
3. Rotate True North - Set the view to Orientation: True North first. Then select the tool, click to define rotation origin and then click to define the first side of the angle and then a second to define the actual angle.
4. Project Base Point (PBP)- You can enter the coordinates and angle for rotation directly into this icon (you mentioned it earlier). This shifts the Survey Coordinate System away from the Project Coordinate System. It's the same result as Acquire Coordinates but does not depend on an external file being selected. To use it for your situation, it also assumes that the coordinates you've been given are what the current location of the PBP is now.
5. Relocate Project - It's the same as entering values via PBP without the elevation input when used in plan view. You just move the building but it means you have to have some point of reference to move it to. To use it for vertical position (elevation) you need to use it again in a section or elevation view.
6. Survey Point - Move it to a specific location while clipped.

Personally, based on what you've written earlier I'd use Specify Coordinates at Point. Move the Survey Point (un-clipped) to sit on the location your surveyor provided coordinates for. Then start SPaC, click on the Survey Point origin. When the dialog appears enter the coordinates, elevation, and rotation values.

Also, make sure your project units match those of the coordinates provided. Otherwise tiny amounts of rounding will occur in the input values. For example if the coordinates have six decimal places then change the units to match that. After using SPaC you'll find the same values are reported and maintained even after returning the project units back to their original settings.

[Anonymous]

What you explained is what I imagined I would have to do, but I still can't seem to get past the original issue I was having.  I can enter the coordinates and everything, but once I enter the angle, it rotates the building in relation to where all the MEP work was done. So that is leaving all the MEP work at one angle and putting the building at a different angle. Is there any way to avoid this? Is there any way to select everything and have it rotate with the building so that it is all being rotated from the same location at the same angle?

[barthbradley]

If you have actually got a link, and not just coordinates, then why not just align the Link your project? Use the Angle to True Angle that works for your project.  If the Link comes in oriented correctly (orthogonal in your Project North), you don't need to do anything with the Angle to True.  

[Anonymous]

I only have coordinates. I believe I have figured out what the problem is. I think I have to set the coordinates/true north for all linked models since this wasn't done from the start. Still working on it so not sure if that is going to take care of it or not.

[barthbradley]

What???  Change the Angle to True North in the Linked Model?  That makes no sense.  Also, if you have no Link, as you confirm, how the heck do you know it's misaligned?  Are you by chance entering the Angle To True North and your View is set to True North?  Is your Project orthogonal when the View is set to Project North? 

[Anonymous]

I have the MEP model and the architectural model.  The project was started just in empty space with none of this information taken in to account. And I'm saying its misaligned when I changed the true north angle, because it is. Just like it shows in the screenshots that I originally posted. I have no idea if my view is set to true north. This process is extremely new to me. I'm doing everything in a 3d view.

So what I ended up doing was going in to the architectural model(used that as the base model essentially) and set the coordinates, project base point and the true north angle for the building. Linked that model in to the MEP model and then would get the wonky ductwork issues that I had previously mentioned. I then changed the project base point and coordinates in the MEP model to match the architectural model and it seems to have straightened everything out.