CAN REVIT BE USED FOR CLADDING CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS - TO ACTAULLY BUILD FROM?

[buzzytrent]

Hi all,

I am a building elvelope./cladding draughtsman who uses Autocad and wants to migrate to Revit for all my draughting. From my research it appears that Revit is mainly used to create broad representations of the building envelope/cladding elements and it may not be the best option for modelling cladding for schedules and shop/construction drawings.

I am trying to use the curtain walling system to create a composite cladding (sandwich panel) basic wall. From what I have read in the forums this seems to be the recommended approach. Although the curtain walling system is painfully limited in the fact that unless the wall is a basic rectangle with rectangular panels (system panel) the system cannot attached to sloped walls, cannot utilize cut openings etc when using custom families for the panels/mullions. This almost renders it unusable for real world projects where there may be gable sloped roofs, door and window openings. 

I have played around with using custom horizontal mullions to represent the horizontal joint profiles and using the system panels but it is clunky and seems like a hack/workaround.

I am a beginner in the software and still in the research stage, but it is becoming apparent that the only way the draw manufactures cladding elements is to use hacks and workarounds. In contrast, Archicad seems to be ahead in building envelope design.

Am I completely missing the knowledge of the tools or is Revit used for Architects to draw generic building elements and the sub contractors still use Autocad to create the actual drawings?

If anyone wants to see my poor attempt at creating cladding elements, let me know and I will attached a file.

Best.

[buzzytrent]

Hi all,

I am a building elvelope./cladding draughtsman who uses Autocad and wants to migrate to Revit for all my draughting. From my research it appears that Revit is mainly used to create broad representations of the building envelope/cladding elements and it may not be the best option for modelling cladding for schedules and shop/construction drawings.

I am trying to use the curtain walling system to create a composite cladding (sandwich panel) basic wall. From what I have read in the forums this seems to be the recommended approach. Although the curtain walling system is painfully limited in the fact that unless the wall is a basic rectangle with rectangular panels (system panel) the system cannot attached to sloped walls, cannot utilize cut openings etc when using custom families for the panels/mullions. This almost renders it unusable for real world projects where there may be gable sloped roofs, door and window openings. 

I have played around with using custom horizontal mullions to represent the horizontal joint profiles and using the system panels but it is clunky and seems like a hack/workaround.

I am a beginner in the software and still in the research stage, but it is becoming apparent that the only way the draw manufactures cladding elements is to use hacks and workarounds. In contrast, Archicad seems to be ahead in building envelope design.

Am I completely missing the knowledge of the tools or is Revit used for Architects to draw generic building elements and the sub contractors still use Autocad to create the actual drawings?

If anyone wants to see my poor attempt at creating cladding elements, let me know and I will attached a file.

Best.

[syman2000]

Sure upload the file so we understand what you want to achieve. There are addon you can look into called Agacad. 

https://agacad.com/products/sandwich-panels/features

[syman2000]

Sure upload the file so we understand what you want to achieve. There are addon you can look into called Agacad. 

https://agacad.com/products/sandwich-panels/features

[alfmedina]

Curtain walls in Revit attach well to slopes of roofs. It's not true that it does not. The limitation occurs when the panel is custom, but any typical glass panel can adapt to the slope of a roof.

Once you model a facade with panels, you can: tag the panels by type, get the area of each panel, label each panel, create a schedule that shows how many types you have, and their identification, and area. 

[alfmedina]

Curtain walls in Revit attach well to slopes of roofs. It's not true that it does not. The limitation occurs when the panel is custom, but any typical glass panel can adapt to the slope of a roof.

Once you model a facade with panels, you can: tag the panels by type, get the area of each panel, label each panel, create a schedule that shows how many types you have, and their identification, and area. 

[buzzytrent]

Thank you for your reply.
Apologies if my question came across a little rude, that was not intended.

I have looked into AGACAD plugins, they look incredible btw, but they are far beyond my budget.

I have attached a basic project with 2No examples. The first showing the curtain walling system using a custom panel family, and not joining the roof correctly. The second is a curtain walling system using custom horizontal mullion profile to show the panel horz joints, whilst using a system panel for the main panel body. This option allows cut openings (kinda) and can be joined to roofs correctly. Although it leaves an undesirable horz mullion joint line at every panel joint. The horz mullions also have a 1000mm centre joint line across them and I am not sure why.

Do you know of a better way of drawing having custom family panels that have the correct profile in section?

Thanks again.

[buzzytrent]

Thank you for your reply.
Apologies if my question came across a little rude, that was not intended.

I have looked into AGACAD plugins, they look incredible btw, but they are far beyond my budget.

I have attached a basic project with 2No examples. The first showing the curtain walling system using a custom panel family, and not joining the roof correctly. The second is a curtain walling system using custom horizontal mullion profile to show the panel horz joints, whilst using a system panel for the main panel body. This option allows cut openings (kinda) and can be joined to roofs correctly. Although it leaves an undesirable horz mullion joint line at every panel joint. The horz mullions also have a 1000mm centre joint line across them and I am not sure why.

Do you know of a better way of drawing having custom family panels that have the correct profile in section?

Thanks again.

[buzzytrent]

Thank you for your reply.

I do not want to draw traditional curtain walling glazing panels, I would like to draw composite cladding panels (no glass). I am only using the curtain walling system as it seems to be the only way of drawing custom panel models with horizontal/vertical joint profiles.

From what I have read on this forum, it is suggested that using the curtain walling system is the preferred method to achieve this yet I cannot overcome the limitations when not using standard rectangular walls.

Thank you.

[buzzytrent]

Thank you for your reply.

I do not want to draw traditional curtain walling glazing panels, I would like to draw composite cladding panels (no glass). I am only using the curtain walling system as it seems to be the only way of drawing custom panel models with horizontal/vertical joint profiles.

From what I have read on this forum, it is suggested that using the curtain walling system is the preferred method to achieve this yet I cannot overcome the limitations when not using standard rectangular walls.

Thank you.

[barthbradley]

You can make gable end by detaching the wall, extending its height to the ridge, and then cutting the panels a Mass Solid -- but why the heck would you want these panels in your model?  

[barthbradley]

You can make gable end by detaching the wall, extending its height to the ridge, and then cutting the panels a Mass Solid -- but why the heck would you want these panels in your model?  

[buzzytrent]

Thank you for the suggestion. I will definitely try it and let you know.

I want to use the composite panels in the model as it represents a manufacturers panel that is used in a real work project that is being built. I imagined that if I use the correct panel model, I can represent it correctly in plan, section, elevation and detail and all iterations will be updated across all views. Well that is what I am hoping for. Eventually I would like to be able to create a model at LOD400 showing all flashings, sub grid, gutters etc that I can schedule for my client to order.

Can your suggest an alternative solution?

Best.

[buzzytrent]

Thank you for the suggestion. I will definitely try it and let you know.

I want to use the composite panels in the model as it represents a manufacturers panel that is used in a real work project that is being built. I imagined that if I use the correct panel model, I can represent it correctly in plan, section, elevation and detail and all iterations will be updated across all views. Well that is what I am hoping for. Eventually I would like to be able to create a model at LOD400 showing all flashings, sub grid, gutters etc that I can schedule for my client to order.

Can your suggest an alternative solution?

Best.

[barthbradley]

You're over-modeling. A good rule of thumb is to not model things that are under 4’’ (100mm). Sure, there are exceptions to that rule, but that panel of yours has consecutive edges (represented by linework) that are only 7/128" apart from one another!  That's crazy nuts!  You can clearly see why, can't you?  All that linework does not add to the LOD.  A simple rectangular extrusion would suffice.  

[barthbradley]

You're over-modeling. A good rule of thumb is to not model things that are under 4’’ (100mm). Sure, there are exceptions to that rule, but that panel of yours has consecutive edges (represented by linework) that are only 7/128" apart from one another!  That's crazy nuts!  You can clearly see why, can't you?  All that linework does not add to the LOD.  A simple rectangular extrusion would suffice.  

[ToanDN]

Use curtain wall and assign basic composite wall types as curtain panels.  The curtain walls can attach to sloped or curved roof, or be profile editted to a custom shape.  Basic wall panels can conform to the shape of the non rectangular curtain walls.

[ToanDN]

Use curtain wall and assign basic composite wall types as curtain panels.  The curtain walls can attach to sloped or curved roof, or be profile editted to a custom shape.  Basic wall panels can conform to the shape of the non rectangular curtain walls.

[buzzytrent]

This was the lightbulb moment. I am over modelling, its painfully obvious now.

From what I have now read its best practice to include the detail of the model in the detail views, which makes sense 🙂

Please see screenshots, one of the Architectural Revit model showing a section through the verge, and the other of the Arch verge detail that was released. I have also attached a screenshot of the level of detail and annotation that is required for my clients. This was created using Autocad, I understand I will not be able to replicate that LOD with Revit but I am trying to understand how close it can get and what is possible.

I can see that the Arch has used plenty of 2d detail items to bulk out and include some detail for the drawing and to prevent over modelling. But my question is this:

Is it possible to link detail items to the 3d model. For instance, I would need to hide the 3d modelled roof and use a 2d detail component to show the correct profile. But if I change the roof position in some way, will I then have to manually visit each detail/section and move the detail component manually?

Thank you for the help btw it is most appreciated. 

Best 

[buzzytrent]

This was the lightbulb moment. I am over modelling, its painfully obvious now.

From what I have now read its best practice to include the detail of the model in the detail views, which makes sense 🙂

Please see screenshots, one of the Architectural Revit model showing a section through the verge, and the other of the Arch verge detail that was released. I have also attached a screenshot of the level of detail and annotation that is required for my clients. This was created using Autocad, I understand I will not be able to replicate that LOD with Revit but I am trying to understand how close it can get and what is possible.

I can see that the Arch has used plenty of 2d detail items to bulk out and include some detail for the drawing and to prevent over modelling. But my question is this:

Is it possible to link detail items to the 3d model. For instance, I would need to hide the 3d modelled roof and use a 2d detail component to show the correct profile. But if I change the roof position in some way, will I then have to manually visit each detail/section and move the detail component manually?

Thank you for the help btw it is most appreciated. 

Best 

[barthbradley]

Revit can do everything that is shown in those AutoCAD screenshots - plus a whole lot more!  You're playing in the big league now! The BIM league!  AutoCAD is in the minor league.  The CAD league.  😉   

[barthbradley]

Revit can do everything that is shown in those AutoCAD screenshots - plus a whole lot more!  You're playing in the big league now! The BIM league!  AutoCAD is in the minor league.  The CAD league.  😉   

[buzzytrent]

I hope you're right. For all that is good and pure I hope you're right!

The idea of having to use Autocad to change five 2d details, sections, plans & elevations because someone requested a door by others to be larger, haunts me to my very core! 

I have been experimenting with custom walls (only rectangles, not some crazy custom family model 😝) embedded into curtain walling systems for knocking up elevations. And it is lightning fast compared to Autocad. Pulling schedules from the curtain panel category to quantify width, length and Qty of panels is great. Haven't worked out schedules when there is a opening on the elevations, as it seems to ignore the opening and treat the panel length as if the wall does not stop/start either side of the opening, but I am going to keep digging and hopefully it will become apparent.

Best.

[buzzytrent]

I hope you're right. For all that is good and pure I hope you're right!

The idea of having to use Autocad to change five 2d details, sections, plans & elevations because someone requested a door by others to be larger, haunts me to my very core! 

I have been experimenting with custom walls (only rectangles, not some crazy custom family model 😝) embedded into curtain walling systems for knocking up elevations. And it is lightning fast compared to Autocad. Pulling schedules from the curtain panel category to quantify width, length and Qty of panels is great. Haven't worked out schedules when there is a opening on the elevations, as it seems to ignore the opening and treat the panel length as if the wall does not stop/start either side of the opening, but I am going to keep digging and hopefully it will become apparent.

Best.

[barthbradley]

It's a lot easier to create parametric Families in Revit than it is to create Dynamic Blocks in AutoCAD. IMO.  

That being said, Revit is going to take some time to learn - and it's going to be a lot of unlearning as well if you are coming at it with an AutoCAD mindset.  

You might like this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mssmOaomlWk

[barthbradley]

It's a lot easier to create parametric Families in Revit than it is to create Dynamic Blocks in AutoCAD. IMO.  

That being said, Revit is going to take some time to learn - and it's going to be a lot of unlearning as well if you are coming at it with an AutoCAD mindset.  

You might like this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mssmOaomlWk

[daniel_williamsGZPZQ]

I am struggling with this as well i need to be able to design the cladding to the manufactures specification as well as scheduling panels and flashing to allow for actual construction not just concept design. i can design the SIP panel in curtain walling to specification and get a schedule for type/ length/quantity. however the problem occur with the gable end and inserting windows and doors.

i have also designed a warehouse using general model families for each and every component of the building and cut out and resave for making window opening and gable end but this doesn't allowing me to properly schedule the materials needed for bill of materials and is very time consuming.

please can anyone help find the best way to design a the representation of a building envelope for construction purposes.     

[daniel_williamsGZPZQ]

I am struggling with this as well i need to be able to design the cladding to the manufactures specification as well as scheduling panels and flashing to allow for actual construction not just concept design. i can design the SIP panel in curtain walling to specification and get a schedule for type/ length/quantity. however the problem occur with the gable end and inserting windows and doors.

i have also designed a warehouse using general model families for each and every component of the building and cut out and resave for making window opening and gable end but this doesn't allowing me to properly schedule the materials needed for bill of materials and is very time consuming.

please can anyone help find the best way to design a the representation of a building envelope for construction purposes.