Alternate method for creating walls & Floors Relative to Datums

payingtoomuch · ‎05-12-2022

I'm typically a detailer and trying to come to terms with an approach to using REVIT that works with my details.

Let me first off say that I understand that I absolutely do not want to over detail in the model, But I see no reason why I can't at least consider "building" the walls and floors in a manner that is reasonably consistent with the way things are built. I've been doing quite a bit of cad modeling of revit files converted to dwg and I'm having to do a lot of work that in my mind is not necessary.

So, interested in getting some opinions if I'm being foolish or going to kill myself trying to do something similar to what I'm currently working on.

1. I want to get all my datums/ levels more or less ironed out prior to putting in floors and walls.

2. Have wall types with finishes that are unlocked at the bottom.

3. Have (relatively speaking ) a lot of levels with associated views (most will never make it to sheets) that are the building blocks of referencing the wall heights.

4. Levels currently as follows. Bottom of Footing. Top of Footing. Top of Slab. Top of foundation Masonry. Top of Foundation Plate. Top of main level subfloor. Top of main level plate. Top of upper level subfloor. Top of upper level plate. Top of attic joist. Top of attic plate. Roof.

5. Idea is as follows:

I draw the footing with top and bottom constraints being top and bottom of footing.
cmu foundation wall (say with stucco veneer) is drawn with constraints from top of footing to top of foundation masonry levels.
Need a plate so draw a 5-1/2" wide by 1-1/2" tall wall set relative to the top of the cmu wall as required with top of masonry wall and top of plate as restraints
Main level walls sit directly on top of the subfloor (modeled with the floor type).... but no finish floor with top of subfloor and top of plate (on top of cmu) as restraints.
Main level walls have bottom exterior finish and sheathing unlocked so can pull down over rim joist and beyond as required.
Upper level walls basically the same.
Once everything modeled come back in and draw actual thickness floor finishes in the "rooms" on top of the subfloor.

As best I can tell this will work without being too cumbersome. Should be able to move levels and have everything move along with it, but I do understand that the plate on top of the cmu foundation wall and the height of the footings are going to need to be dealt with when changes are made.

I'll start with this.

Thanks in advance for any help.

mphungDCHNW · ‎05-13-2022

Hi,

Are you just trying to find other alternative ways of creating wall elements with what info you just stated ?

payingtoomuch · ‎05-13-2022

Not really. Just kind of trying to get some feedback as to whether I'm overthinking these things and ultimately making my life more complicated down the road than is necessary for my purposes. I want all the info there and in it's correct location so that when I detail I don't have the typical headaches I run into with others models.

payingtoomuch · ‎05-13-2022

For the record, in the past when I first started experimenting with revit (many years ago) I got way bogged down with stacked walls and all the myriad types that would need to be created for any given project at the time. So, on some level, trying to figure out a way not to have to deal with all that as well. Guess I'm kind of thinking that if I "stack" my own simplified typical walls from floor to floor and drag only the finishes down or up that this all could make sense.

mphungDCHNW · ‎05-13-2022

Honestly if you wanna go really really simple you can just model in place everything which is a good option

ToanDN · ‎05-13-2022

@payingtoomuch wrote:

I'm typically a detailer and trying to come to terms with an approach to using REVIT that works with my details.

Let me first off say that I understand that I absolutely do not want to over detail in the model, But I see no reason why I can't at least consider "building" the walls and floors in a manner that is reasonably consistent with the way things are built. I've been doing quite a bit of cad modeling of revit files converted to dwg and I'm having to do a lot of work that in my mind is not necessary.

So, interested in getting some opinions if I'm being foolish or going to kill myself trying to do something similar to what I'm currently working on.

1. I want to get all my datums/ levels more or less ironed out prior to putting in floors and walls.

2. Have wall types with finishes that are unlocked at the bottom.

3. Have (relatively speaking ) a lot of levels with associated views (most will never make it to sheets) that are the building blocks of referencing the wall heights.

4. Levels currently as follows. Bottom of Footing. Top of Footing. Top of Slab. Top of foundation Masonry. Top of Foundation Plate. Top of main level subfloor. Top of main level plate. Top of upper level subfloor. Top of upper level plate. Top of attic joist. Top of attic plate. Roof.

5. Idea is as follows:

I draw the footing with top and bottom constraints being top and bottom of footing.
Okay if heights of footing are same. If you have stepped footing then the benefits diminish.

cmu foundation wall (say with stucco veneer) is drawn with constraints from top of footing to top of foundation masonry levels.
Okay.

Need a plate so draw a 5-1/2" wide by 1-1/2" tall wall set relative to the top of the cmu wall as required with top of masonry wall and top of plate as restraints
This in unnecessary. Just set the main level walls' Base Offset to -1 1/2" from the Base Constrain level. The 2x6 plate is accounted for by this wall base offset.

Main level walls sit directly on top of the subfloor (modeled with the floor type).... but no finish floor with top of subfloor and top of plate (on top of cmu) as restraints.
See above.

Main level walls have bottom exterior finish and sheathing unlocked so can pull down over rim joist and beyond as required.
Okay.

Upper level walls basically the same.
Okay.

Once everything modeled come back in and draw actual thickness floor finishes in the "rooms" on top of the subfloor.
Okay.

As best I can tell this will work without being too cumbersome. Should be able to move levels and have everything move along with it, but I do understand that the plate on top of the cmu foundation wall and the height of the footings are going to need to be dealt with when changes are made.

I'll start with this.

Thanks in advance for any help.

payingtoomuch · ‎05-13-2022

@ToanDN wrote:
@payingtoomuch wrote:
I'm typically a detailer and trying to come to terms with an approach to using REVIT that works with my details.
Let me first off say that I understand that I absolutely do not want to over detail in the model, But I see no reason why I can't at least consider "building" the walls and floors in a manner that is reasonably consistent with the way things are built. I've been doing quite a bit of cad modeling of revit files converted to dwg and I'm having to do a lot of work that in my mind is not necessary.
So, interested in getting some opinions if I'm being foolish or going to kill myself trying to do something similar to what I'm currently working on.
1. I want to get all my datums/ levels more or less ironed out prior to putting in floors and walls.
2. Have wall types with finishes that are unlocked at the bottom.
3. Have (relatively speaking ) a lot of levels with associated views (most will never make it to sheets) that are the building blocks of referencing the wall heights.
4. Levels currently as follows. Bottom of Footing. Top of Footing. Top of Slab. Top of foundation Masonry. Top of Foundation Plate. Top of main level subfloor. Top of main level plate. Top of upper level subfloor. Top of upper level plate. Top of attic joist. Top of attic plate. Roof.
5. Idea is as follows:
I draw the footing with top and bottom constraints being top and bottom of footing.
Okay if heights of footing are same. If you have stepped footing then the benefits diminish. Not exactly following. But that's ok for now. Just got to get rolling with this thing. Of note however. Looked into the "structural footings" with the thinking I could draw something of a fixed thickness and not use an architectural wall type for the footing.... where i have to tell it thickness by creating "my" level "bottom of footing"..... thought I could eliminate that level. But, for whatever reason, the structural footing does not center itself on my architectural wall type structural part (the cmu) or a brick/ block cavity wall. AND you don't have option to offset from face of structure like the walls, so now rethinking that. Do you know a way to "fix" this (have footing center itself by default on the structural part of the wall? Or how to create an architectural wall type (or some other component) that has a fixed height that can be drawn like walls?
cmu foundation wall (say with stucco veneer) is drawn with constraints from top of footing to top of foundation masonry levels.
Okay.
Need a plate so draw a 5-1/2" wide by 1-1/2" tall wall set relative to the top of the cmu wall as required with top of masonry wall and top of plate as restraints
This in unnecessary. Just set the main level walls' Base Offset to -1 1/2" from the Base Constrain level. The 2x6 plate is accounted for by this wall base offset. I agree, probably not necessary and another step.....
Main level walls sit directly on top of the subfloor (modeled with the floor type).... but no finish floor with top of subfloor and top of plate (on top of cmu) as restraints.
See above. Thinking by see above you mean that IF I have a floor with a integral floor finish layer then I can just offset the wall into the finish to reach the subfloor. I'm just kind of thinking I'm not really going to mind going back into the model later and adding the floor finishes at true thickness or not. Which brings up another question.... What about doors and windows when inserted. Are they referencing Subfloor or finish floor and wondering where issues are going to come up with this either method.....
Main level walls have bottom exterior finish and sheathing unlocked so can pull down over rim joist and beyond as required.
Okay.
Upper level walls basically the same.
Okay.
Once everything modeled come back in and draw actual thickness floor finishes in the "rooms" on top of the subfloor.
Okay.
As best I can tell this will work without being too cumbersome. Should be able to move levels and have everything move along with it, but I do understand that the plate on top of the cmu foundation wall and the height of the footings are going to need to be dealt with when changes are made.

I'll start with this.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Thanks again for all your help. Glad at least as far as you're concerned I'm not barking up some crazy tree and going to get too hammered later down the road with this process I'm embarking on.

ToanDN · ‎05-13-2022

@payingtoomuch wrote:

@ToanDN wrote:

@payingtoomuch wrote:

I'm typically a detailer and trying to come to terms with an approach to using REVIT that works with my details.

Let me first off say that I understand that I absolutely do not want to over detail in the model, But I see no reason why I can't at least consider "building" the walls and floors in a manner that is reasonably consistent with the way things are built. I've been doing quite a bit of cad modeling of revit files converted to dwg and I'm having to do a lot of work that in my mind is not necessary.

So, interested in getting some opinions if I'm being foolish or going to kill myself trying to do something similar to what I'm currently working on.

1. I want to get all my datums/ levels more or less ironed out prior to putting in floors and walls.

2. Have wall types with finishes that are unlocked at the bottom.

3. Have (relatively speaking ) a lot of levels with associated views (most will never make it to sheets) that are the building blocks of referencing the wall heights.

4. Levels currently as follows. Bottom of Footing. Top of Footing. Top of Slab. Top of foundation Masonry. Top of Foundation Plate. Top of main level subfloor. Top of main level plate. Top of upper level subfloor. Top of upper level plate. Top of attic joist. Top of attic plate. Roof.

5. Idea is as follows:

I draw the footing with top and bottom constraints being top and bottom of footing.
Okay if heights of footing are same. If you have stepped footing then the benefits diminish. Not exactly following. But that's ok for now. Just got to get rolling with this thing. Of note however. Looked into the "structural footings" with the thinking I could draw something of a fixed thickness and not use an architectural wall type for the footing.... where i have to tell it thickness by creating "my" level "bottom of footing"..... thought I could eliminate that level. But, for whatever reason, the structural footing does not center itself on my architectural wall type structural part (the cmu) or a brick/ block cavity wall. AND you don't have option to offset from face of structure like the walls, so now rethinking that. Do you know a way to "fix" this (have footing center itself by default on the structural part of the wall? Or how to create an architectural wall type (or some other component) that has a fixed height that can be drawn like walls?
If your building is on a slope, or different load bearing required deeper or shallower footing.

cmu foundation wall (say with stucco veneer) is drawn with constraints from top of footing to top of foundation masonry levels.
Okay.

Need a plate so draw a 5-1/2" wide by 1-1/2" tall wall set relative to the top of the cmu wall as required with top of masonry wall and top of plate as restraints
This in unnecessary. Just set the main level walls' Base Offset to -1 1/2" from the Base Constrain level. The 2x6 plate is accounted for by this wall base offset. I agree, probably not necessary and another step.....

Main level walls sit directly on top of the subfloor (modeled with the floor type).... but no finish floor with top of subfloor and top of plate (on top of cmu) as restraints.
See above. Thinking by see above you mean that IF I have a floor with a integral floor finish layer then I can just offset the wall into the finish to reach the subfloor. I'm just kind of thinking I'm not really going to mind going back into the model later and adding the floor finishes at true thickness or not. Which brings up another question.... What about doors and windows when inserted. Are they referencing Subfloor or finish floor and wondering where issues are going to come up with this either method.....
I shouldn't have said "see above".
Doors and windows should be inserted in a view with the associated level you intend reference sill/head dimensions. If you want the sill heights based on the finish floor then insert doors/windows in the finish floor level plan view.

Main level walls have bottom exterior finish and sheathing unlocked so can pull down over rim joist and beyond as required.
Okay.

Upper level walls basically the same.
Okay.

Once everything modeled come back in and draw actual thickness floor finishes in the "rooms" on top of the subfloor.
Okay.

As best I can tell this will work without being too cumbersome. Should be able to move levels and have everything move along with it, but I do understand that the plate on top of the cmu foundation wall and the height of the footings are going to need to be dealt with when changes are made.

I'll start with this.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Thanks again for all your help. Glad at least as far as you're concerned I'm not barking up some crazy tree and going to get too hammered later down the road with this process I'm embarking on.

payingtoomuch · ‎05-13-2022

OK. Thanks! Following all of your last comments above.

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Alternate method for creating walls &amp; Floors Relative to Datums