Deactivation of the PERPETUALs you sold us? Why would I give you another cent?

[Anonymous]

I am astounded by Autodesk's total disregard for all who trusted them when purchasing perpetual licenses. I can hardly believe they're actually doing this.

From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of perpetual
1a : continuing forever : everlasting perpetual motion
b(1) : valid for all time a perpetual right
(2) : holding something (such as an office) for life or for an unlimited time

Am I missing something here?

Why would I - or anyone else for that matter - choose to invest more money in any Autodesk subscription/product after being told the terms of my previous investment have now changed and that investment is now terminated?

I have used 3DS Max since Max 8 (circa 2006) when I paid about $4K for it, plus maintenance, because I TRUSTED them when they stated it was a PERPETUAL license. There were plenty of pirated options for freelancers out there but I stayed honest and paid hard-earned cash from my own pocket because I considered that to be a fair price for a very good, PERPETUAL 3D toolset. I now feel betrayed.

Ending maintenance for older, perpetual licenses - that I can understand. But now refusing to even activate those licenses - sold as "PERPETUAL" - that people paid thousands of dollars for, covering it with a statement about the benefits of going to a [FAR more expensive] subscription-based license? They could easily just continue to send out activation codes from a server or even send perpetual license owners an activation code generator. I'm sorry, I don't buy their bit about costs incurred "maintaining two different business models"; an activation server or code generator requires little-to-no paid human labor - a small price to fulfill their end of the bargain. How is this anything short of greed and dishonesty?

I was worried this might eventually happen after Autodesk purchased Maya. That creation of a semi-monopoly on then-leading 3D animation tools would eventually drive them to a position like this. Their intentions are now clear for all to see, and I hope this forum reaches many potential customers who can still steer clear of Autodesk. My parting hope is to see a class-action lawsuit force Autodesk back into a position where they honor the terms under which they sold perpetual licenses.

My trust in Autodesk is destroyed. I will never use an Autodesk product again - either in my day job or as a night freelancer. I've make our corporate supply chain aware of Autodesk's policy and directed that we no longer purchase any products or subscriptions from them. In blogs and in person, I now let as many other CG artists know about the treatment they can expect from Autodesk and advise them of the more economical (free), trustworthy alternatives.

Blender 2.8 has finally become the grown-up version with a comfortable UI that I was waiting for. I've already started making the jump and so far I like the tools and UI more than the last version of Max I was paying to maintain (only to see Autodesk kill off support for it). Blender is FREE with a growing community of dedicated advocates and developers, and it's a lot more appealing than paying $200 a month to receive minimally impressive capability updates from a company I no longer trust.

Autodesk - in light of what you've done and the trust you've betrayed, can you give me a single reason why I should not now jump to Blender and bring along as many other users as possible?

[rkmcswain]

I believe the response to all of that was stated two years ago, by the CEO.

"If you don't see value in subscription, you should probably find another software solution"

Source

[Anonymous]

Well, I certainly can't argue with that...

"If you don't see value in subscription..."

Biggest understatement of the year for me so far.

All I can say is - WOW.  Did he actually say that?  The hubris of these people astounds me.

Thanks for posting the source.  My favorite response from that twitter page:

"He expressed a similar sentiment during a quarterly conference call with financial analysts. Otoh, he welcomes pirates as new customers, and counts students as customers, who pay him nothing."

Precisely.

I guess the takeaway here is shame on anyone who was silly enough (including me) to go the honest route and pay them $4 grand for perpetual + maintenance instead of using a torrent.  Joke's on us now - not even a cent of credit toward new releases from that original investment we made.

Anyone considering buying Autodesk products, take note of the treatment you can expect.

[Anonymous]

I should mention that although it takes a while, word does get around in the community.  Also, "small" customers like me who find their policy decisions like this to be appalling in little matters have no reason to believe they will behave any differently in large matters.  I direct a creative division and the related software purchase decisions in a Fortune 500 company.  As recently as last year we had been debating whether it was worth continuing with Autodesk and making the jump from our remaining perpetuals over to subscriptions (versus retraining staff and migrating to a better long-term solution).  Given their massive uptick in prices, lackluster support, and the appeal of other, non-Autodesk solutions (Blender not least among them) - the best path becomes pretty apparent.

Or, to restate that quote one more time:

"If you don't see value in subscription, you should probably find another software solution"

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[RobDraw]

There were opportunities to get discounts for subscriptions for those with perpetual licenses faced with the ending of support. Surely you didn't miss the writing on the wall that this day was coming? Did you really expect such old software to be able to continue working on the newer operating systems without any continued support?

[Anonymous]

No.  I simply expected them to be honest and stand by the definition of a "perpetual" license as written in the contract under which they sold it.

Some folks continue to maintain older systems and use their trusted toolsets on those systems to help make a living. They were ok taking care of technical difficulties themselves.  Again, they trusted the definition of "perpetual" when Autodesk sold them the software - whether v2015, 2011, 2009, or earlier.

As I stated in my original post, ending technical support and maintenance is completely understandable.  That is separate from simply providing activation keys or leaving perpetual keys with those who trusted enough to make the purchases at that time.

Shutting off all perpetual keys with the claim the it's too costly to "maintain two separate business models" is a little hard to believe, especially when their stock price has virtually tripled over the past 3 years.

Reminds me of the scene in Robots where CEO Ratchet, in a corporate meeting, rolls out his plan to force all old robots into the latest expensive upgrades  - or face meltdown in the scrap heap if they can't afford it.

[cadffm]

I am missing 2,3 informations:

1. Do you write as self-affected?

 if yes

2. Do you currently have a problem activating older software?
    What does it fail with this way: Request an activation code
Did you even have contact with the support?

It's rarely to read, but you (or just others, or just some of others?) can get an activation code, also today.

[Anonymous]

Hello, CADffm.  Regarding your questions:

1.  Yes, I write as self-affected.  I have an older, purchased commercial version of 3D Studio Max which my son uses to create and sell some models in an online marketplace.

2.  Yes - Autodesk does not allow me to activate my software.  When I call the 800 phone number for product activation, a human never responds and I'm directed via automated message to activate online.  When I go online to the activation page, it no longer accepts our serial number.  When I tried to reach a person on chat support, I am only directed again and again to the "knowledge center" with links to the same activation dialog that does not work.

[RobDraw]

I'm not arguing the terms of the contract as I am not an expert in those matters and you need an expert to help you with the legalities but I think you, and a lot of other people, are misinterpreting the definition of perpetual as being the same as permanent. In order for something to be perpetual, there needs to be a certain set of circumstances in place. If any of those circumstances ceases to exist then the perpetuity may stop. Permanent, however, means that something will remain without exception.

In this case the circumstances that need to be in place for your license to be perpetual would be system requirements of the software. Get it? The software may not run on newer systems. Users need to isolate the system from outside influences that can render the software unusable. As @cadffm not so eloquently stated, it may not be too late for you to reactivate your software. Just make sure that you can maintain your outdated system and you could be good to go.

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Shutting off all perpetual keys

---

Autodesk did not shut them off. A change to the systems that were running the software caused a condition that required reactivation.

[Anonymous]

RobDraw,

First, thanks for taking time to put together that response.  While the issue (and Autodesk) infuriate me, I appreciate your effort and reasoning to try and provide an explanation.

While I can understand how one might view perpetuity as being dependent on supporting conditions, if those originally supporting conditions are still intact (same OS, same PC/HW as at time of install, etc.) then I can't understand how the license should no longer be allowed to work.  And by allowed, I mean having all parts of the licensing mechanism provided at time of purchase remain valid and in working condition.  That would include the license activation mechanism necessary whenever the existing license installed on said hardware encounters an error that requires reactivation.

The other term I'd take issue with in this matter is "perpetual".  On reviewing my installation and license documentation, I found the following:

"You can view detailed information about your Autodesk® product and your

product license (such as the license usage type and the license behavior), and

then save this information as a text file.

License usage types include the following:

■ Commercial. A license for a product that was purchased commercially.

■ Not for Resale. A license for a product that is not sold commercially.

■ Educational (EDU)/Institution. A license designed specifically for

educational institutions.

■ Student Portfolio. A license for students who are using an Autodesk

product as part of their curriculum.

■ Trial. A license that allows individuals to try the product. This license

expires after a predefined period.

License behaviors are as follows:

■ Permanent. Allows permanent use of an Autodesk product.

■ Term Extendable. Allows access to an Autodesk product for a limited

period of time. The term can be extended at any time.

■ Term Non-Extendable. Allows access to an Autodesk product for a limited

period of time. The term cannot be extended."

I see no use of the term "perpetual" in this and the only license that would apply, in my case, is "Permanent".  Please advise if I'm missing another possibility from this list.

For me, this is not only about the permanent license I now feel cheated out of by Autodesk (because I do actually maintain a separate system with the necessary, older OS to run that Max license).  It's also a matter of principle.  Note that I've been a staunch advocate of Autodesk 3D Studio Max and AUTOCAD for a couple of decades, both in my "day job" profession and as a freelancer.  I've taught others to use their software and recommended purchasing and upgrading their software time and time again.  When Autodesk chose to move to subscriptions, they could simply have moved forward after announcing the end of offering any more "perpetual" licenses while honoring the investment of those who purchased perpetual (which I think many consider synonymous with "permanent").  To now go back and refuse to provide activation codes - in any form - for those permanent licenses that require them to work smacks of both greed and dishonesty, in my opinion.  I think they are hoping this problem will just go away if they wait long enough, but I don't think they realize how embittered they've made many loyal customers like me in doing something like this to a community of customers that trusted them.

As to re-activation, I believe Autodesk has made it clear in writing (per link on their Activation page/dialog) that 3D Studio Max permanent/perpetual versions 2011 and newer will be provided activation codes only through 2021.  All versions older than that have already been cut off from having activation codes provided any longer.

As much as I've liked their software for now close to 20 years, why would I now invest any more money or trust in a company that does this?

[RobDraw]

I think you are making assumptions and twisting meanings in order to divert readers away from the fact that you could have taken measures to maintain (support) your perpetual license. 

I'm out. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Well there you go.

Sure, if you consider "twisting"the meaning of "permanent" into something as clearly defined in a Webster's dictionary and commonly understood to be "for an unlimited time" by the majority of the English-speaking world.

I find odd the assumption that customers should be forced to take "measures" to "maintain" the perpetual licenses they paid for.  Yet, I'm absolutely willing to do just that if Autodesk will simply provide the means (e.g., activation code generator or equivalent)  for doing so.

[pendean]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/that_ship_has_sailed

[Anonymous]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_fools

Clearly this is an inner board trolled mainly by Autodesk bots.  Tell your boss, Nolan Sorrento, you've done your job today.

Goodbye, Autodesk.  I'll be sure to spread the word so others know what they can expect should they ever consider your product.  As for me, I'm done with you...perpetually.

[rkmcswain]

@RobDraw wrote:

Autodesk did not shut them off. A change to the systems that were running the software caused a condition that required reactivation.

I have to presume you are being sarcastic. 

Are we supposed believe that a highly successful, worldwide corporation with 8,000 employees and $2.5B in revenue can't fabricate a workaround for this? Is their entire revenue stream dependent on some 3rd party creator of key generators, who apparently isn't very good at their job? And lastly, are we to believe that the lifespan of these key generators is somehow magically synchronized with the current version and three prior versions?

[pendean]

---

Goodbye, Autodesk. I'm done with you...perpetually.

---

[m_latz]

@Anonymous 

For your 3DS Max 8 you should have the "License transfer tool" were you can transfer your license from your old computer to a new one. I did this with Autodesk Inventor 10 Series (2006) on Windows XP to Windows 10 Pro 1903 a few days ago.

And yes, because Autodesk does not generate new authorization codes it is my responsibility to backup my existing codes, that they are save for the future. And as long as I find an operating system that supports the software I can use it.

regards

Markus

[RobDraw]

Definitely not sarcastic.

As to the rest of you comments/questions, they are a bunch of assumptions and suppositions about things I did not say anything about and show a lot of anger about this subject. I understand the anger but do not share it.

[rkmcswain]

IMO, I don't see how anyone could possible buy the "excuse" they are selling. Autodesk doesn't make any money from perpetual license holders not on maintenance. They want users of their software paying them annually. This is nothing more than another process to help facilitate this. 

Non-maintenance perceptual-license customers are "not our customers" because they don't give us money anymore.  - Autodesk CEO Andrew Anagnost (Source)

If you are in the US, have a great Thanksgiving!

[Anonymous]

Wow those quotes are heavy. What we can say from a customer's point is that, Autodesk will never ever even once get money at all from us. We now had a machine being upgraded, using Linux, put the old into VM just to notice we could not export/activate our Inventor 2010 Suite licence anymore. Looking at AD's prices nowaday makes us angry. Back in 2009 we paid 5K€ for the suite incl. 1 year sub. Nowadays they want 2.5K€ for 1 year for Inventor alone. Surely not from us. We are a small company and the software(licence) we OWN(ed...) was exactly fitting our needs.