Mudbox Update 2018.1

[Out-Of-Light]

I came across this in the Knowledge network pages.

http://docs.autodesk.com/MBXPRO/2018/ENU/#!/url=./files/GUID-4875124C-E33E-4DFC-A1BF-B0092BBA2F17.ht...

What's new in Mudbox 2018.1 update.

Now I may be jumping the gun here as the update does not seem to be available yet in my subscription and may have further revisions added before release, ( if so apologies ) but from the list of fixes/improvements shown, they all seem to be slight tweaks to performance in various area's, rather than any actual new features. 

Phrases like "more accurate", "now faster", "more stable", are used, and I don't know why, but I have the feeling that these "tweaks" will be "barely noticeable", "if at all...

For me its now been over 3 years of subscriptions payments since there has been any new development in Mudbox ( op's I must apologise, there was a security patch! ), Zero new features, promises, edited promises, and excuses, and the mess of Autodesk downsizing and reshuffling development teams, while standalone Mudbox users get the back of the queue treatment, waiting while Maya users get Mudbox for free while we keep paying subscription and getting nothing back. Promises last year that now Mudbox and Maya have been fused together ( because their now the same Dev team ) that development will continue for standalone Mudbox, PROMISE BROKEN!, promises this year on various CG forums from ADSK employees that Mudbox will have exciting new features coming in updates this year... and this is it really? Some probably unnoticeable tweaks, and a red optimisation warning exclamation mark! Just like the new features highlight in Mudbox 2017 when there actually were no new features, which is just taking the proverbial P!

Come on Autodesk! Not impressed!

Has there actually been any new development in Mudbox Autodesk? Really? Really really? Be honest mow 🙂

Or is this it now, that Mudbox subscribers are to be satisfied with approx. 5 hours of coding per year in development?

Maybe this is just stage one, but after all the waiting, this is really a wet Lettice! 

[Christoph_Schaedl]

first you need to stabelize the code... same goes with maya2018...

bugfixing comes first...

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/sites/default/files/file_downloads/Mudbox2018.1_Update_Release_Notes_...

great work..!

[Out-Of-Light]

@Christoph_Schaedl

So you are saying its acceptable??

No new features in Mudbox 2017 while the recently acquired Mudbox code gets handed to the Maya team, and Mudbox subscribers get nothing while they fuse the two together. Promises that there will be development after the Maya/Mud fusion, nothing!, then a senior management employee sits face to face with me last November ijn a meeting in London, and tells me Mudbox is EOL, and now obviously Autodesk have had a change on direction again, so these delays are because Autodesk were in two minds about MudBox's future, so didn't invest development time in it, because they downsized and reshuffled development teams and didn't have the development teams to cope!

3 years for some optimisation teaks to the Mudbox 2016 code? Acceptable??

If Autodesk had the development teams to cope with their oversized software portfolio, these optimisation and stability fixes should have been implemented in a Mudbox 2016 update, not held back until the 2018 release!

Obviously you and me are going to have to agree to disagree...

Yes great work indeed! 

[Christoph_Schaedl]

im not fine with that by no means... but thats how it is for now...

if i would not need mudbox every day i wont bay for it... but its still in use even without development...

[Out-Of-Light]

@Christoph_Schaedl

Understood.

Sorry for my frustration, but these broken promises about Max, maintenance subscription, Mudbox etc over the years all add up, and its such a shame that a wonderful peace of software like Mudbox is being given the back of the queue treatment and was almost EOL'ed last year because of the short-sightedness of upper management.

I've mentioned this before in other posts, that the more powerful CPU's / GPU's become the more high detail sculpting will be in demand, and that ADSK management are short sited not seeing this and trying to scrap their only standalone high detail sculpting application.

It could be a strong contender against Z-brush if strong development was put back into it.  I know so many teachers, students, and clients that prefer it due to the interface and ease of use, and how its more like an artists tool rather than an overly complicated menu driven app like Z-brush. I've tried both and for me Mudbox is the winner. Not biased, if Z-brush was for me, that's where my money would be.

Imagine sculpting in VR in Mudbox, would be great if they got the UI right, and Mudbox has a lot of room for improvement and could take a few pages from Substance painters painting and material interface....

Autodesk, You get the rusty bronze star *, Note to parent, must try harder!

[jill.ramsay · Accepted solution]

Hi there,

We've just begun a new round of development on Mudbox, and as Oglu points out, we've just fixed over 75 major bugs, including some that go back to Mudbox v1, like not being able to undo subdvision. I felt it was important to start with stability and quality over adding new features. Now that Mudbox 2018.1 is out the door, we're already working on a feature update. I know things have been slow for the last couple of years (to put it mildly), and I understand your frustration, but we are getting back on track.

Hope this helps,

Jill

[Out-Of-Light]

@jill.ramsay

Thank you Jill for responding to this post.

My comments and reaction was based purely on that very short list of 9 fixes and enhancements from the Mudbox 2018.1 update knowledgebase, that seemed to be minor performance and stability tweaks. 75 bugs is more like it. Sounds like a shake down from the bottom up.

Jon Bell has just informed me that this update is a full installer (858MB) which sounds like a lot more work than the 2018.1 update knowledgebase would have readers believe, and is available now.

The impressions I and some other Area forum readers have had are also very misleading sourced from various posts by ADSK employees over the last 2 years.  One ADSK employee posted on the Mudbox forum last year that, due to the integration of Mudbox into Maya, and that the Maya team is now responsible for Mudbox development , there was zero development in Mud 2017, but that development would continue in the future. Then I have senior management tell me face to face last November that Mudbox is EOL, so it seems this is a case of one hand not talking to the other within ADSK's infrastructure. But guessing from some of the comments from ADSK employees since around this time last year, I am guessing development back into Mudbox has only really started gaining momentum since last Autumn?

Anyway, all sounds like good news!

Thank you for the clarification.

[jill.ramsay]

Thanks for your response. To be absolutely honest, plans change over time. I don't think anyone deliberately meant to mislead anyone, it's just the ebb and flow of things. We added a lot of functionality to Maya from Mudbox, but Mudbox remains a very viable standalone option, and we decided to reinvest in it starting this summer. I apologize that some of these changes in direction leave you confused. But I think you can take comfort from the fact that we did choose to address stability and quality first, indicating that we are serious about keeping Mudbox viable. It would have been easier to spend the time we spent on bug fixing adding a couple of features, but in the long run, the team decided it wasn't the right order to do things in.

Thanks for hanging in there with us! Stay tuned for the next update. 🙂

Jill

[sergimen2001]

There are some users in our Mudbox Facebook group, asking about where they can donwload the Mudbox 2018-1 for test it.

They must to go simply to the Mudbox Product Page and when they download the demo, they will be downloading the new Mudbox 2018 Update 1 version?

Greetings:
Sergio Mengual
3D Artist-3D Generalist-3D Character Artist

https://www.artstation.com/artist/sergiomengual

https://www.facebook.com/Sergio3D2D/

https://www.youtube.com/user/sergiomengual

[Out-Of-Light]

@jill.ramsay

Thank you Jill again for your reply.  I also do not think that I or any other customer has been deliberately mislead, and like you say, plans change, but I also think there are some communication breakdowns between various teams and departments within ADSK leading to uncertainly not only with customers but within ADSK ranks too.

I am not a conspiracy theorist although I, like many others speculate on these forums.

My comments are not based solely on just one post from a Mud/Maya developer last year, or one meeting with senior management last November, but on various conference calls and emails over the last 2 years with senior management, software engineers and directors, and various other technical staff that all lead me to strongly believe that Mudbox came very close last year to having its plug pulled.

I am glad that development is back on track and that Mudbox will continue in the ADSK portfolio, but I think it is general knowledge now that many of these long delays and buggy new releases are a direct cause of the downsizing and reshuffling that's been going on with not only with development teams but the whole ADSK infrastructure the last few years, mainly to cut costs, and this has lead directly to price increases that have lead to ADSK loosing a lot of seats and long term users of Autodesk products.

I know in my area, and my resellers area at the opposite side of the country, that many small studios cut the number of seats drastically last year due to the 32% maintenance subscription price hikes, and news of further hikes in the coming years, and some ADSK members I spoke to have stopped their subscription completely due to what seemed to be stagnant development in Mudbox, and unusable unstable new releases in Max, which I am sure now they will regret, but I was also very close to cancelling my maintenance subscription the last 2 years, but I had it in writing just before my subscription renewal late September that development is now underway again in Mud so decided to give it one last chance.

I know there have been a lot of hobbyists, freelancers and small studios that have been put off by the new Desktop subscription prices, and want maintenance subscription, perpetual licences and upgrade plans back, but senior management have made this very clear that that's never going to happen...

There's no confusion, just a misleading Knowledgebase article, that looked like a wet Lettice compared to the promises of further development and exciting new features that have been talked about but not implemented for 2 years now, and IMHO these bug and stability fixes released yesterday, should have been dealt with a few years back, delays because of the Mud / Maya fusion and an uncertainty of Muds future.

I know that ADSK has been hiring again lately, increasing its technical and development teams, which is good news, and there have been some great new additions to the support team, but this has all lead to larger hits on customer wallets, and when customers have to pay more, they expect more, which has gone the opposite direction of logic the last few years, paying more and getting unstable new releases or no development at all, so with these price increases, I, and I am sure most other customers will be expecting greater things for their money, as I for one currently no longer consider the prices of maintenance subscription for the new product we receive each year value for money, and that prices should be going down the last few years to reflect the products we receive which are either unstable or had no development at all.

Max 2017 getting hardly any use at all due to instability last year and a work around only one month before the new version of Max was released.

Development, especially stability fixes are coming at an extremely slow rate in various apps, that should be made priority. Look how fast stability fixes were implemented in Max 2016, all fixed within a few months of launch, and then look at the rate we are getting these fixes now! It reflects very badly on the development teams and upper management, and needs serious attention. I certainly wont be switching to desktop Sub and paying 3x more a year for the same products if I am already finding maintenance prices unpalatable for the slow development, and even some features being taken away that have been part of Max for many years like Iray and Mental ray. More money for less is not a great customer incentive. I know Mental ray / iray are available separately now for free in Max 2018 from Nvidia, but for how long?

Max 2016, after a few service packs was IMO one of the most stable and feature rich releases of Max to date, and I've been using Max since V4.2, and then it all seemed to go wrong with Max 2017, which IMHO is one of the buggiest and unstable releases in Max history, and some of those bugs have followed into max 2018.

I've never had any real issues with stability on my system with Mudbox, and cannot comment on new versions as Mudbox had no development in 2017/2018 until this summer, only announced to customers yesterday.

It does look like things are slowly getting back to normal within ADSK! But while Mudbox development stood still , Z-brush has had yet another great new update, and although its been commented that Mudbox cannot compete with Z-brush so ADSK will not try, I think Mudbox can be a strong contender even with recent delays, and if development picks up pace again with strong new ideas,  Mudbox could find itself in a strong position again within a few years.

Cheers all for your input, and have a great rest of the week!

And sorry for the overly long ( as usual ) rant from me.

[jill.ramsay]

---

@sergimen2001 wrote:

There are some users in our Mudbox Facebook group, asking about where they can donwload the Mudbox 2018-1 for test it.

They must to go simply to the Mudbox Product Page and when they download the demo, they will be downloading the new Mudbox 2018 Update 1 version?

---

Hi Sergio,

Yes, the trial will have been updated to the latest version.

Cheers,

Jill

[jill.ramsay]

---

@Out-Of-Light wrote:

@jill.ramsay

Thank you Jill again for your reply.  I also do not think that I or any other customer has been deliberately mislead, and like you say, plans change, but I also think there are some communication breakdowns between various teams and departments within ADSK leading to uncertainly not only with customers but within ADSK ranks too.

I am not a conspiracy theorist although I, like many others speculate on these forums.

My comments are not based solely on just one post from a Mud/Maya developer last year, or one meeting with senior management last November, but on various conference calls and emails over the last 2 years with senior management, software engineers and directors, and various other technical staff that all lead me to strongly believe that Mudbox came very close last year to having its plug pulled.

I am glad that development is back on track and that Mudbox will continue in the ADSK portfolio, but I think it is general knowledge now that many of these long delays and buggy new releases are a direct cause of the downsizing and reshuffling that's been going on with not only with development teams but the whole ADSK infrastructure the last few years, mainly to cut costs, and this has lead directly to price increases that have lead to ADSK loosing a lot of seats and long term users of Autodesk products.

I know in my area, and my resellers area at the opposite side of the country, that many small studios cut the number of seats drastically last year due to the 32% maintenance subscription price hikes, and news of further hikes in the coming years, and some ADSK members I spoke to have stopped their subscription completely due to what seemed to be stagnant development in Mudbox, and unusable unstable new releases in Max, which I am sure now they will regret, but I was also very close to cancelling my maintenance subscription the last 2 years, but I had it in writing just before my subscription renewal late September that development is now underway again in Mud so decided to give it one last chance.

I know there have been a lot of hobbyists, freelancers and small studios that have been put off by the new Desktop subscription prices, and want maintenance subscription, perpetual licences and upgrade plans back, but senior management have made this very clear that that's never going to happen...

There's no confusion, just a misleading Knowledgebase article, that looked like a wet Lettice compared to the promises of further development and exciting new features that have been talked about but not implemented for 2 years now, and IMHO these bug and stability fixes released yesterday, should have been dealt with a few years back, delays because of the Mud / Maya fusion and an uncertainty of Muds future.

I know that ADSK has been hiring again lately, increasing its technical and development teams, which is good news, and there have been some great new additions to the support team, but this has all lead to larger hits on customer wallets, and when customers have to pay more, they expect more, which has gone the opposite direction of logic the last few years, paying more and getting unstable new releases or no development at all, so with these price increases, I, and I am sure most other customers will be expecting greater things for their money, as I for one currently no longer consider the prices of maintenance subscription for the new product we receive each year value for money, and that prices should be going down the last few years to reflect the products we receive which are either unstable or had no development at all.

Max 2017 getting hardly any use at all due to instability last year and a work around only one month before the new version of Max was released.

Development, especially stability fixes are coming at an extremely slow rate in various apps, that should be made priority. Look how fast stability fixes were implemented in Max 2016, all fixed within a few months of launch, and then look at the rate we are getting these fixes now! It reflects very badly on the development teams and upper management, and needs serious attention. I certainly wont be switching to desktop Sub and paying 3x more a year for the same products if I am already finding maintenance prices unpalatable for the slow development, and even some features being taken away that have been part of Max for many years like Iray and Mental ray. More money for less is not a great customer incentive. I know Mental ray / iray are available separately now for free in Max 2018 from Nvidia, but for how long?

Max 2016, after a few service packs was IMO one of the most stable and feature rich releases of Max to date, and I've been using Max since V4.2, and then it all seemed to go wrong with Max 2017, which IMHO is one of the buggiest and unstable releases in Max history, and some of those bugs have followed into max 2018.

I've never had any real issues with stability on my system with Mudbox, and cannot comment on new versions as Mudbox had no development in 2017/2018 until this summer, only announced to customers yesterday.

It does look like things are slowly getting back to normal within ADSK! But while Mudbox development stood still , Z-brush has had yet another great new update, and although its been commented that Mudbox cannot compete with Z-brush so ADSK will not try, I think Mudbox can be a strong contender even with recent delays, and if development picks up pace again with strong new ideas,  Mudbox could find itself in a strong position again within a few years.

Cheers all for your input, and have a great rest of the week!

And sorry for the overly long ( as usual ) rant from me.

---

Hi Simon,

I appreciate your feedback and will pass it up the chain. I can't comment too much on what's happened in the last two years - I came back to Autodesk myself in April of this year (I was previously with the Maya team from 1997 to 2007). From my perspective today, Autodesk is a very healthy company and I'm excited to be part of what we're developing in the Media & Entertainment division.

I would just mention that Mudbox is, of course, extremely reasonably priced (IMHO) at $10/month or $80/year.

Again, thanks for your comments.

Jill

[jill.ramsay]

---

jill.ramsay wrote: Hi Sergio,

Yes, the trial will have been updated to the latest version.

Cheers,

Jill

---

Hmm, it seems that is not currently true. I'll see what I can do.

Jill

[longjohnsally]

Just want to say what a relief this is to hear.  Mudbox is such a phenomenal tool, and is especially great in educational environments because of how incredibly intuitive it is to use compared with competitive products like Z-brush.  I teach it at our University, but also do workshops with highschool studetns in the summer and they can be up and running in Mudbox in less than 15 minutes.  Amazing!  Thank you so much for the update and the communication.

[longjohnsally]

Just want to say what a relief this is to hear.  Mudbox is such a phenomenal tool, and is especially great in educational environments because of how incredibly intuitive it is to use compared with competitive products like Z-brush.  I teach it at our University, but also do workshops with highschool studetns in the summer and they can be up and running in Mudbox in less than 15 minutes.  Amazing!  Thank you so much for the update and the communication.

[Kranos_Orphydian]

will youll updating the style of the UI as well to be more in line with the new Maya and Max ones ?

[ElectricGeisha]

Hi Jill,

Any news on whats coming and when! Looking forward to some Mudbox news.

Cheers

Jon

[jill.ramsay]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Hi Jill,

Any news on whats coming and when! Looking forward to some Mudbox news.

Cheers

Jon

---

Hi Jon,

I'm afraid I'm not at liberty to pre-announce dates or features, but rest assured cool stuff is coming in the not too distant future! Stay tuned.

Jill

[sergimen2001]

Sincerely, What are you doing here?

[arboitjy]

I am using 3ds since the "DOS" versions ....
And a passionate user of the early hours (at other, and nice ,but old time) ...
And frankly when I see the delay of the majority of Autodesk products, I'm sad ...

And the question of what I'm doing here is fun, realy !
When I see (look too much) the delay of this carving software ...
Also see Substance painter ....

Why is Mudbox so late ...if you compare ZBrush ?
why so much delay ?
The train is past it is not serious ...same Toxik, Composite, Arnold without texture baking, render map ...and without complex imposed in 3ds MAX !

Why are the majority of Autodesk products it's, old , hungry and more expensive...for this ?

It is interesting sometimes to look elsewhere (and in front) to account for lost time !
But why are you here too 😉