Visibility settings of a component when editing through an assembly.

[f_calebh]

When working in an assembly that has multiple references of the same component, I can edit one of the components through the assembly to make modeling changes. All the instances of that component then update with my changes.

However, if I make any changes to appearance, or object visibility, it only updates the specific instance that I edited through the assembly.  Even saving the part file after the edit doesn't update the other instances. In order to change any visibility settings for all instances, I have to open the part instead of editing it through the assembly. Is there a reason for this behavior? I would think that unless you change the visibility settings at the assembly level it shouldn't affect the view rep at the assembly level? 

[SometimesInventorMakesMeAngry]

I discovered this behavior when switching from LOD's to View Representations after I read an Autodesk post recommending NOT to use LOD's. I find it frustrating as well and I encounter it every day. I think it partially defeats the concept of in-place editing. 

That said, I have not found a workaround aside from opening the document and making view changes there. Hopefully the workflow is better in newer versions of Inventor that support Model States.

[mcgyvr]

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@f_calebh wrote:

When working in an assembly that has multiple references of the same component, I can edit one of the components through the assembly to make modeling changes. All the instances of that component then update with my changes.

However, if I make any changes to appearance, or object visibility, it only updates the specific instance that I edited through the assembly.  Even saving the part file after the edit doesn't update the other instances. In order to change any visibility settings for all instances, I have to open the part instead of editing it through the assembly. Is there a reason for this behavior? I would think that unless you change the visibility settings at the assembly level it shouldn't affect the view rep at the assembly level? 

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@f_calebh  How EXACTLY are you "edit one of the components through the assembly to make modeling changes"?

If I right click on a component (that has multiple instances) in a top level assembly and select "Edit" then go and change the appearance for that component ALL instances of it update because I was editing a part in the context of an assembly. If I just select a component (not actively editing it as per the sentence above) and change its color at the assembly level it only changes for that instance..  Both of those cases are as expected.

So I suspect what you are seeing boils down to how you "think" you are editing a component in an assembly. When the appearance or whatever isn't applying to all instances you aren't actually editing that part in the context of an assembly. 

If you want your appearance change to be applied to all instances then you MUST be editing that part in the context of an assembly and not just at the assembly level. If you don't see a "return" button like this then you aren't editing a part and making a part level change.. You are editing the assembly definitions/instance appearance.

[sundars]

In addition to what @mcgyvr said, you can control visibility and appearances using associative design views. You have change the representation of your instances to some view-rep inside the part and make it associative. Then, any changes you make to the view-rep (in the part) will also reflect on the assembly instances.

To do this

consider the following example

A1

 + P1:1

 + P1:2

Open p1
create a view rep called "View1"
Make some appearance changes or visibility changes
Save

Inside A1, select both P1 & P2
Right click show context menu and select "representation"
Choose View1 and check the associative checkbox
Doing this will link your assembly instances of P1 to the view-rep inside P1

Now, any changes to appearances or visibilities inside P1 will automatically be reflected in all instances which refer to View1

For more info, the knowledge base should have plenty of information on view-reps. 

Thanks

-shiva

[f_calebh]

@mcgyvr I was editing in the context of the part. You have to edit the actual part to change the model per my comparison.

It was actually another user that brought the issue to my attention. If I remember correctly, I think he was trying to turn off the visibility of a sketch:

I think the color appearance had acted the same way when I was testing with the user, but there have been a couple updates since then and it looks like that portion has been fixed. I'm going off of memory on that, though I'm confident that was the case. I wish I would have added some snippets. 

I also think it's still and issue with turning visibility off of components through a subassembly (taking having the correct view reps into consideration of course) 

[mcgyvr]

@f_calebh Sounds like what you were seeing or thought you were seeing is just related to design view reps. 

The change likely applied to a specific design view rep and other parts weren't set to that design view rep or similar. 

If you can provide example files we can see where the disconnect is but it sounds to me like everything is working as it should (and likely has been the entire time) you just might not be as familiar with the effect design view reps can have. 

Maybe have a read of this.. https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/inventor/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2022/ENU/Inve...

[f_calebh]

@mcgyvr 

It's been a month and I was working with another user. I wish I would have pasted some snippets. I usually do. My mistake. It's possible there were view rep changes or view rep associativity issues on that particular file, I just feel it's something I checked; though maybe not. Either way, I'm quite familiar with how view reps and editing parts work in an assembly. If I see the color issue working now, that's all I care about. 

I don't have his file so I just did a quick recreation to replicate the sketch issue. Here's step by step:

The assembly is set to Master:

The part files are all the same view rep at Master, including the one I'll edit:

Turn sketch visibility off:

I can still send you this file if you'd like, but I feel a more detailed explanation is probably what you wanted. Again, I just made this assembly now.

[CGBenner]

@f_calebh @mcgyvr @sundars 

I have been able to reproduce the sketch visibility thing.  I placed 8 instances of a part I created.  Edited in place one of them.  Changed the color and material... all updated.  Turned ON the visibility of a sketch in one of them and returned to top... only that instance has the sketch visible.  I think I remember that it used to carry to all instances in past releases.  No idea if this is intended behavior or not.

Is this what you were trying to describe?

[mcgyvr]

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@CGBenner wrote:

@f_calebh @mcgyvr @sundars 

I have been able to reproduce the sketch visibility thing.  
Is this what you were trying to describe?

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Same here.. The detailed description helped understand that specific aspect of it..  

[f_calebh]

yes, that's the behavior I'm seeing. I couldn't replicate the color side again, so we're good to go there.

Here are my steps on the subassembly component visibility. Probably related to the sketch issue:

[f_calebh]

@mcgyvr , @CGBenner 

It's not exactly what I remember seeing, but after playing around with the sketch item first when I was working with the user in my original post may have been what caused the color issue I was seeing the first time. I just tried changing the color appearance on that file. Probably related to memory?

again, not exactly what I remember seeing, but may be why I thought it was related to appearance as well.  Can you guys replicate that? You'd have to try it after running through the sketch issue.

[sundars]

@f_calebh It looks like your instances are all placed using the master view rep. Which means, any edit on an instance will only affect that instance.

If you place the instances using some part-view-rep and then open the part, set that view-rep active and change the visibility or appearance then your visibility change should reflect in all instances of the assembly.

Thanks

-shiva

[f_calebh]

@sundars 

Master views are locked. So that makes sense on a subassembly where you would need a new view rep to save those changes. I thought maybe they would all update then give the typically master view warning when saving.

That's different on a part file, though. changes to appearance and object visibility are saved to that locked master view rep. As mentioned previously, changing the color or material appearance will update all the instances at once which makes sense to me. It should do the same with sketches and work features. If I wanted to change an individual part instance in an assembly, I would do that at the assembly level. Wouldn't you agree? 

[sundars · Accepted solution]

Hi @f_calebh 

You have a valid point on questioning the behavior of editing part instances and why object visibilities are different from appearance changes. Let me try to elaborate some key diffs below. I have also created a sample dataset you can play with to study the behavior.

>> If I wanted to change an individual part instance in an assembly, I would do that at the assembly level. Wouldn't you agree?

I agree - if you want to override a part instance in the assembly, you should do it at the assembly level.

>>That's different on a part file, though. changes to appearance and object visibility are saved to that locked master view rep.

Appearance changes

For a part, if feature appearances are changed, we internally manage this by creating a color/appearance attribute on each of the feature faces/edges to render that feature in a different color. By doing so, the owning geometry is now edited to be rendered in a different color. Because all part instances share the same geometry, they are rendered in that new color. This is the reason why changing feature appearances in master view rep works for all instances. This is in constrast to managing part instance overrides in a sub-assy - i.e. changing the appearance of the entire part inside some sub-assy - this uses design view overrides.

Material Changes

In an assembly, if you edit a part instance and change its material, then this change is global. All parts get the same material.

Object Visibility (aka sketch or workgeom vis)

Because one might want to control these objects individually for each instance, the mechanism of controlling the visibility of these objects are tied directly to design views/view representations.

(a) Editing a sketch or work geometry visibility from an assembly when part instance is in master viewrep

This would edit that individual part instance which is being modified.

(@CGBenner Perhaps your part instances were placed in master?)

(a) Editing a sketch or work geometry visibility from an assembly when part instance is in non-master viewrep

viewrep is associative: This would affect all part instances which are referencing that non-master view rep. will also prompt you to remove associativity or modify view rep

viewrep is non-assoc: then it should be a local part instance edit

In the following example:

A1

+ Box:1 master

+ Box:2 master

+ Box3: view1 (assoc)
+ Box4: view1 (assoc)

You can try it out to study the behavior of how different edit scenarios behave.

Thanks

-shiva

[f_calebh]

@sundars 

I'm following with what you're saying on how it functions. A person may want to treat object items separate in different instances and you can't access them from the assembly level.  Personally, I just don't see how often that would be needed. I can't think of one where I'd want that, but that's me. It seems more logical that if I'm editing a part file through an assembly, it's because I want to change that part file, not because I want to change the design rep of the assembly that instance is in.  Like you said; rendering/material/geometry all works as I'd expect.  Personally, I'd rather Objects work the same way as rendering/material/geometry. Thanks for the explanation, though.

Quick question, is this because the file you sent was made in a newer version of Inventor than my 2020 version?

I hadn't seen that before.

[sundars · Accepted solution]

Hi @f_calebh 

My apologies - yes, I used 2022 to create that sample file. If you want, I can create one in 2020. Let me know. Or you could try it yourself. 

I agree that logically it would make sense that when editing the part from the assembly that it should change all instances. And thats true for geometry, just not for object visibility. Object visibility is tied into the view representation framework and breaking those rules will open up a different can of worms :(.

Life was simple before part design views 🙂

-shiva

[f_calebh]

@sundars 

No need for the 2020 version. I got there without it. Thanks again.

[sundars]

@f_calebh Awesome. No problem. Have a great weekend!