Infer constraints turned off, yet constraints are still being inferred.

[kristin.jakuszanek]

Hey all!

I am having issues with how inventor automatically infers constraints. I have the setting for this turned off yet constraints still are being inferred all the time, whether I am in an IPT file, or IDW. 

Is there a known issues with this feature still functioning, even though the setting is turned off? Or are there forced inferences that cannot be turned off?

Also, I had read somewhere before that coincident constraints on edges don't show in the 'show all constraints', as to reduce screen clutter, but sometimes these coincident constraints that don't show are what's causing me issues. Is there a way to actually have inventor show all the constraints, regardless of how much clutter it will cause?Line automatically inferred constraint to objectInfer setting is turned OFFWhat shows with show all constraintThis is what I also want to see during show all constraints

[Sergio.D.Suárez]

Hi, The way to set the restrictions I think it's fine. Personally, I prefer to disable horizontal and vertical, if necessary add them myself, it has happened to me that these restrictions cause me problems, for example if you want to turn a square it is complicated to do it if you have all vertical and horizontal restrictions, but if the restrictions are all normal and only one horizontal, you can eliminate this and turn it without problems. As a recommendation when I find a complication in a node like the one that shows, I usually create an arbitrary line that cuts both lines and cut with it the lines of the vertex, then I eliminate the vertice point and the arbitrary created line. If necessary I re-apply a match between endpoints of the linear segments that I have left.
I hope you can find the problem and solve it. regards

[kristin.jakuszanek]

My issue isn't that I don't know how to delete the constraint. It's that I have the setting turned off, yet it is still inferring constraints. I don't want inventor to create any constraints for me, such as a point being horizontal to another point, unless I create that constraint myself by physically picking the points and the constraint type I want between them. 
If I have the infer constraints box unmarked, what else must I do to stop constraints from inferring, unless the setting is not functioning properly?

[Curtis_Waguespack]

HI @kristin.jakuszanek ,

Not a direct answer to your questions, and I realize you're doing some floor plan type sketching, but have a look at this link:

http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com/2011/03/inventor-101-simple-fully-constrained.html

As an example, in your first post, I see a simple rectangle, extruded, then another rectangle extruded to cut away the top right corner, then a Shell to create the wall thickness. 

See the attached example file (2017 format) to see how the simple sketches might be of use.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[kristin.jakuszanek]

I can see where you are going with this, but I am not looking to be building my parts/sketches differently. The only time I run into issues with building my sketches is when lines infer constraints to other lines, and I don't realize until I notice I am somehow over constrained, or a line is moving with another line that it shouldn't be connected to. 

It still doesn't help that in other elements of inventor constraints are being inferred when I don't want them to be, such as adding a section view to an IDW and part of the section view 'line' inferring a constraint to an object in my IDW.

I am having a hard time understanding how I have constraints inferring themselves, when I have the option off.   

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@kristin.jakuszanek wrote:

I can see where you are going with this, but I am not looking to be building my parts/sketches differently...

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HI @kristin.jakuszanek ,

Okay no worries. The intent of my reply was just to offer a tip, not to address the inferred constraint questions directly.

In order to address those questions I'd have to spend some time reviewing those settings, as it's been a while since I've paid attention to them... I use them as they are "straight out of the box", and seldom/never pay any attention to inferred constraints... mostly because I employ the simple sketch method regardless of the complexity of the model I'm working with, so that those issues do not arise.

Maybe someone else can provide a more direct reply to the specific questions.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[kristin.jakuszanek]

Understandable. I am used to working in another program where you pretty much have to input your own constraints for everything and I like it that way.. 
 
I was hoping for an autodesk person to hop on here and better explain how all those settings work exactly since I may be understanding their inference settings incorrectly (from the information I have been able to find online)... 

Thanks for your suggestions though! 

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@kristin.jakuszanek wrote:

Understandable. I am used to working in another program where you pretty much have to input your own constraints for everything and I like it that way.. 

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Hi @kristin.jakuszanek ,

So that does bring up a couple of points:

I do hold the CTRL key down sometimes to prevent an inferred constraint from being placed when I know one is likely... and I also often sketch away from the target location and then apply a constraint manually to visually see the geometry "snap" in place as the constraint is applied....for the same reason of ensuring that nothing is inferred...

One last tip on a similar note, is to turn off automatically projected geometry (Tools > Application Options   > Sketch tab > Autoproject Edges for Sketch Creation and Edit setting  )... this helps keeps your sketches cleaner and containing only geometry that you choose to be in there

Those things might help, but of course don't directly answer your questions either.

So quickly, I think this is what you're seeing:

When you use a tool like the rectangle tool, or the offset tool, or the pattern tool, etc they apply some constraints... let's call those "Automatic Constraints"... these are constraints that are applied as part of that specific tool .. in your images above there are a lot of parallel constraints that presumably were created with the offset tool.

These constraints are not being inferred, they are being placed as part of those tools. I don't know of a way to turn those off.

As an example of what is inferred and what is automatic you can sketch a rectangle.  With inferred on, you get parallel and perpendicular, and maybe a horizontal, plus the endpoint coincident constraints... with infer off, you only get the coincident constraints .

As for showing endpoint coincident constraints in the sketch automatically without having to hover over the yellow boxes, I don't think this can be done any longer... it seems there was an option for that at one point, but I don't see it now .... but I might be remembering that incorrectly.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much all of that helps as far as understanding the inferred constraints vs "automatic" constraints and getting things to work for you, but it might provide a little bit of help to know that some tools create constraints automatically as part of there inherent functionality.

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[kristin.jakuszanek]

I'll have to try holding the CTRL button to stop them. 
I did know about how it will make 'automatic mates' based off of the offset tool, or when I place squares and the corners are 'automatically' coincident, and I am OK with this functionality. I had to turn off project edges long ago, as it was causing way too many lines in my sketches. 

My biggest issue I see is that if I am drawing on an IDW, and because I passed over a line, it will then pick up the center point, or edge point of the line I pass over and create a constraint that's horizontal on the line I am drawing to the line I pass over. Similar things happen in sketches for IPTs where I will be sketching a line or curve and my mouse will highlight another line and then create some sort of inferred constraint. As you had stated, however, you do a lot of your sketching away from your target location to avoid this, which I may have to start picking up as well.

Because I have the mate inference turned off, though, I would think I shouldn't have to hold down CTRL to have mates not infer. I would assume it shouldn't create any of these automatically regardless. 

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Kristin,

If I recall correctly, you cannot turn off end-to-end coincident constraint infer. It is because the sketch does need it. Otherwise, you will have loose ends causing more problem down the road. I suggest you turn on Coincident Constraint display so you see where they are. Go to Tools -> App Options -> Sketch -> Constraint Settings -> Settings -> check "Display coincident constraint in sketch."

Many thanks!

[IgorMir]

Hi Johnson,

In such a case the options in the Sketch tab in Application Options DB is outright misleading. The check mark can be removed in there.

Cheers,

Igor.

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@johnsonshiue wrote:

Hi Kristin,

If I recall correctly, you cannot turn off end-to-end coincident constraint infer. It is because the sketch does need it. Otherwise, you will have loose ends causing more problem down the road. I suggest you turn on Coincident Constraint display so you see where they are. Go to Tools -> App Options -> Sketch -> Constraint Settings -> Settings -> check "Display coincident constraint in sketch."

Many thanks!

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[kristin.jakuszanek]

Hi Johnsonshiue,

I do have that setting turned on, but they will not show when I do a show all constraints. I can only get them to show if I hover over these areas.

I would like them to display when I tell inventor to show all my constraints, as they are still constraints. 
Is this not possible?

[kristin.jakuszanek]

Igor, 

Those settings you show in the picture dictate what types of constraints can be inferred, not what to show or not show during constraint display. 

Regards,

Kristin 

[IgorMir]

Hi Kristin;

Wasn't that the question of yours? You wanted to remove inference of constraints in the sketch. That's the way I read your post anyway. Besides - I was replying to Johnson's saying that end to end inference cannot be turned off.

Cheers,

Igor.

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@kristin.jakuszanek wrote:

Igor, 

Those settings you show in the picture dictate what types of constraints can be inferred, not what to show or not show during constraint display. 

Regards,

Kristin 

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[kristin.jakuszanek]

Igor, 
You are correct. I want to remove inference. The issue is the setting you are telling me to turn off is turned off, yet it still will infer all the constraints.

 

With the above box not clicked (Infer constraints) I would assume that all the greyed out constraints wouldn't create themselves unless I physically tell inventor to place them. Yet, in my original post, you can see a horizontal mate inferred itself in my IDW when I was placing a section view. 

[IgorMir]

No, Kristin, I didn't tell you to do anything. I was replying to Johnson. Please read his post (the very beginning of it) and you will see - what my reply to him is all about.

Cheers,

Igor.

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@kristin.jakuszanek wrote:

Igor, 
You are correct. I want to remove inference. The issue is the setting you are telling me to turn off is turned off, yet it still will infer all the constraints.

 

With the above box not clicked (Infer constraints) I would assume that all the greyed out constraints wouldn't create themselves unless I physically tell inventor to place them. Yet, in my original post, you can see a horizontal mate inferred itself in my IDW when I was placing a section view. 

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[kristin.jakuszanek]

Sorry Igor, 
I guess I don't understand what you are trying to add to this post except a restatement of what Johnson has already said. I don't see why you had included an image for the infer constraint box either, then, or brought up anything about the OP, if that is not what you are giving a response to. 

I don't mean to sound rude, but I want to know why I have constraints inferring when I don't think they should be, and it feels that this question has yet to be answered in this thread. 

EDIT: IGOR, I now see what you are saying!!

It is VERY misleading that in the infer constraints you can turn off the setting for coincident, yet it was stated that it cannot be turned off. 

The only thing I can think of with that is that the coincident constraints AUTOMATICALLY inferred at the corners of squares cannot be turned off, but other inferences of coincident constraints can be? Either way, I have my setting turned off and inferring still happens regardless of what is ticked in those boxes. 

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Kristin and Igor,

I think I was confusing myself a bit with my reply. You can definitely disable Coincident Infer. What you need to do is to check Infer option -> uncheck Coincident -> uncheck Infer. But, if you keep it checked, Coincident Infer will always happen (my original reply). I recalled it was intended. In the early days, we had users unchecking this option leading to unusable sketches.

Regarding the Coincident constraint display, I am not able to reproduce the behavior. Could you share an example here?

Many thanks!

[IgorMir · Accepted solution]

Hi Kristian;

To remove the automatic inference of any constraints all boxes in the DB should be cleared. In your DB (according to the image you have posted) - you left them all checked but the Infer constraints one. 

Cheers,

Igor.

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@kristin.jakuszanek wrote:

EDIT: IGOR, I now see what you are saying!!

It is VERY misleading that in the infer constraints you can turn off the setting for coincident, yet it was stated that it cannot be turned off. 

The only thing I can think of with that is that the coincident constraints AUTOMATICALLY inferred at the corners of squares cannot be turned off, but other inferences of coincident constraints can be? Either way, I have my setting turned off and inferring still happens regardless of what is ticked in those boxes. 

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[IgorMir]

Hi Johnson;

Yes, the way you put it in the original post of yours got my attention. 

Anyway, regarding the display of the coincident constraint in the sketch. If that option is turned on - there is a yellow square is visible in the join - not the endpoint constraint icon. To delete the constraint you need to get to the icon by hoover over the yellow mark. I think - that's what Kristian is referring to.

Cheers,

Igor.

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@johnsonshiue wrote:

Hi Kristin and Igor,

I think I was confusing myself a bit with my reply. You can definitely disable Coincident Infer. What you need to do is to check Infer option -> uncheck Coincident -> uncheck Infer. But, if you keep it checked, Coincident Infer will always happen (my original reply). I recalled it was intended. In the early days, we had users unchecking this option leading to unusable sketches.

Regarding the Coincident constraint display, I am not able to reproduce the behavior. Could you share an example here?

Many thanks!

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