Include Geometry (Work Points) in Tube & Pipe runs. IV2020

[IgorMir]

Morning, everyone.

Due to the hardware changes (new valves had to be put in place) I need to reconnect the existing routes to the new valves.

But it seems - project geometry in pipe route is limited to selecting faces only. While I do have work points I want to use in the valve itself - they are not selectable for projection in T&P run. The valve is authored for Pipe components, 

To deal with the issue - I an creating a work point on the assembly level instead. That point can be projected. But why not the existing point from the valve itself? Yet the Help File states that work geometry can be projected too. It just doesn't say - work geometry from which level? is it from the assembly one or from the part? What do I miss?

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,

Igor.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Igor,

This sounds like a bug or a limitation. I don't have a good explanation. Let me work with the project team to understand it better.

Many thanks!

[IgorMir]

Good morning, Johnson,

Thanks for the head up, much appreciated!
Before calling it a bug we shouldn't dismiss the young operator error either... 😊
What I have noticed is - if a base part is a standard part - re-routing to it is going as expected. The work points on part level are selectable for projecting geometry 

But if a base part is authorized as Pipe part - re-routing is difficult to implement. The work points are not selectable for projecting.

Attached is a simple assembly, which demonstrates just that. The route in it has been detached and now I am trying to position it in a new place. Right where the work point is. But the point is not selectable. 

The only option is to introduce the work point on the assembly level. That point  is selectable for projecting geometry. But If I have ten valves which were replaced - I need to introduce ten work points on the assembly level. It is hardly an attractive option. Especially - given the fact that I will need to create ten corresponding work axis's to define each point. Plus - twenty more constrains will be added to the Parameters DB. It is a pretty vicious circle, by the look of it.

Here is a simple model to have a look at. IV 2020.
Thanks for your help!

Cheers,

Igor.

[gcoombridge]

Hi Igor,

I think you can only project points at the assembly level. Work points in any part can be selected to start/end a route (i.e. they don't need to be projected).

If you want to reconnect a route, pipe from the valve a short distance - then use a coincident constraint from your unconnected line to the new end point. Lastly delete the new node by right clicking on it... This is my workflow anyway. This will make the valve position a driver for the line length.

You need to be very careful with tube and pipe about what is driven and driving. You can get into situations where the line is driving the position of the valve and others where the reverse is true. Sometimes it is easier to connect the valve to the line rather that the line from the valve, or just re-route the line again...

I haven't seen it in any tutorials but you can also use constraints between valves etc... in the run file. There is no point in using them on piping because they will disappear with an update in line size/direction. This lets you space out exact centers for items and then simply route between them. FYI the first fitting placed will be grounded although it has no symbol and this can be removed in the right-click menu.

Cheers,

Glenn 

[IgorMir]

Hi Glenn;

Thanks for your input, much appreciated!

In the sample files I have posted earlier - how would you re-connect the route, which I have left disconnected?

Thanks,

Igor.

[A.Acheson]

@IgorMir 

Replacing fitting/valve  can be difficult especially if it was the starting point for the route. Due to order of creation the route is now grounded and when you try and reconnect the route goes into autoroute seemingly as it is trying to route from grounded route to ground valve . I find that if you place all your tube and pipe valves, couplings etc into a run you can get around this grounded route issue. Now you can bring the valve to the route and connect. 

Not to sure if it is a common method but I create a run called assembly fittings and place valves, pressure gauges etc in there. Main reason we work on mostly rigid routes and just use one run per spool.

Alternative 1. Is to just constrain the pipe segment to the valve using an insert constraint. 

Alternative 2. Create a new route and colinear and coincident the old route to the new route, delete the node and add dimension, it might be the only method in some instances especially if the valve has moved and you need to re-constrain it to equipment and you end up with a grounded valve and grounded route in different positions. 

Hope this helps, it really is trial and error sometimes. I really wish the order of connections of parts and the subsequent grounding could be removed it really does hamper simple tasks as reconnecting fittings such as you are attempting.

[A.Acheson]

@IgorMir 

Alternative 2. Method using route constraints to re-attach the route as @gcoombridge  had suggested. Use it also when autoroute is not creating a straight route as it should do between two fittings even if they are inline. 

[IgorMir]

Thanks Glenn and Alan!
That's what I have ended up doing. Introducing a segment of a route from new place, attaching the old route to a newly created node, deleting the new segment. It works, but it feels rather like a workaround than a workflow. 😊

Thank you for your help!

Cheers,

Igor.

[gcoombridge]

Hi Igor, 

Sounds like you got there, but to illustrate my previous post (screenshots below) - I can't put up a sample file for you because I'm using 2021.1

It many situations it wouldn't be an issue because you would have an end-connection fitting of some kind. You would just un-connect this and re-connect it to the new geometry...

[IgorMir]

Yes, it probably will work if the route starts with the fitting. Then re-connecting the fitting itself solves the issue with re-routing. But in my case I didn't have a start-up fitting. I had a valve which I had to replace to a different one completely. Yet the route was starting from that very valve.

Anyway - it is all good for now. Thanks for everyone's help!

Cheers,

Igor.