Editing Bolted Connection Design Accelerator XML Data

[tdswanson]

Hello everyone:

I made this post in the customization board a while back and it was suggested that I post it here.  Has anyone else dealt with this?

Thanks!

*************

Hey everyone:

I've got a strange situation regarding the bolted connection generator. For some background, I made another post a while back about editing the hole sizes for Flat Head Cap Screws so that the heads were below flush. That thread is here:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Autodesk-Inventor/IV2012-Bolted-Connection-DA-and-Clearance-xls/td-p/3...

Basically, I increased the countersink diameters Clearance.xls and then found that the Design Accelerator doesn't use that spreadsheet for its data source. More research led me to this file:
C:\Users\Public\Documents\Autodesk\Inventor 2013\Design Data\Design Accelerator\Tables\Holes\Ansi Unified Screw Threads.xml

So I edited the diameters in this file and tested the design accelerator and everything was great. [I kept a backup of the original...]

Since then, another thing that has bothered me was counterbore numbers for socket head cap screws. The Cbore diameters don't match the tools that we have and the depths are always right on size. i.e. for a 1/4" SHCS, the bore is 7/16" diam x 0.250" deep. In reality our cbore tools are about 0.406 and we cut them about 0.265 deep to make sure the head is below flush.

No big deal, right? I went in to these two XML files and edited them (and kept backups):
Ansi Metric M Profile.xml
Ansi Unified Screw Threads.xml

The problem ==========>
Everything seems to be cool, except for one scenario. When I create a counterbored joint for a metric SHCS, the cbore diameter is always 16.00 mm diameter and too deep, regardless of its size. I searched the XML file and what it's doing *does not* match the data in the XML file. I monkeyed around a little more and could not get the counterbores to come out right.

So at that point, I renamed all the files to restore my original backups to the "factory" ones. I assumed that I screwed up the formatting or something in the data table and I'd just try it again. However, even after I restored my backups and removed my edited files, the metric counterbores are messed up.

What I don't understand is that changing the file "Ansi Unified Screw Threads.xml" *did* update the holes for English screw joints. But does the DA pull data for metric joints from somewhere OTHER than "Ansi Metric M Profile.xml"? And if it does use this XML file, why isn't it working? The original data has been restored, but the behavior is not behaving correctly.

Anyone have any ideas?

[tdswanson]

OK,

So I have messed with this a bit more.  Again, the English XML data seems fine, but there is some sort of corruption with the Metric data.  I've done an uninstall and install and the problem is not solved.  I've also jimmied the file names back so that the application refers to the default file "Ansi Metric M Profile.xml" and I still have issues.

I've looked through the old file "Ansi Metric M Profile.xml" for issues and can't find any.  FYI, the modification date is 11/9/2006.

But I still have issues with the hole if I try to use the Bolted Connection Generator to put a metric socket head cap screw in a counterbored hole.

If a reinstall won't fix this, what should I do?  Can someone advise?

Thanks!

[tdswanson]

OK, not sure if anyone is reading this or not.....  But I've got game changing news.

My company just purchased our second Inventor license for an intern that started this week.  I completed the installation on his machine and decided to test this problem before I did *ANY* customization to the installation, just to see what would happen.

So I installed the entire suite, rebooted, then launched Inventor.  I created a couple of plates from the default (AutoDesk created) metric templates, then created an assembly and constrained them to each other.  I then added some points and launched the Bolted Connection Generator to bolt them together with some metric socket head cap screws.

Sure enough, when I inserted an M6 SHCS and change the "upper" hole to a counterbored hole for the cap screw head, things got squirrely and the numbers went south.  The counterbores were too small and too shallow.

Keep in mind, this was an *out-of-the-box* installation with *no* customization done to it yet.  So it would appear that on my machine, I did not create this issue by editing the XML files.  Not sure when the problem presented itself because I don't use metric fasteners very often. 

Can someone see if this issue is present on their machine?  I've attached a file with two IPT files and an IAM file.  I'm presently using IV2013, but I've got a box with the media for IV2014 on my desk.  Wonder if this issue is still there.  Anyone?

Thanks!

[rdyson]

I don't use BC but gave it a shot just for grins and got the attached. Other than not being able to figure out how to do full thread and thru hole, it seems okay to me.

[tdswanson]

Hey, thanks for taking the time to mess with this.....

I can't seem to open the assembly you posted and have it function because I don't have that screw in my content center temp files. Are the heads below flush and fitting nicely in the holes?

Also, what version of Inventor (and service pack) are you using?

Thanks again!

[rdyson]

did it in 2013 sp2
the bolt is standard CC part
I've not customized CC

[tdswanson]

Now I'm really stumped.

The reason I asked about the fastener and the version is that I hadn't inserted an M6x40 SHCS.  My understanding of how the content center works is that when you insert a content center part, it generates a model for that exact configuration and dumps it in the folders specfied in the application options under "Content Center files".  So if I take an assembly of yours that calls out something that I haven't generated yet on my system, it'll bark at me when opening saying that it can't find that screw.  Am I wrong about this?

So I went into another MY assembly and put in a bolted connection using that particular screw so that I would get the CC part in the cache directory.  Then I closed my assembly and opened yours.  It didn't ask me to locate the screws, but when I looked at the assembly, the screws and holes were not shown.  I right clicked on the Bolted Connection in the tree and just clicked "OK" and everything was cool.  Bolts and holes were there, sized correctly.  No problem.

Back to me being stumped.  What could be different about your installation from the "fresh" installation that I did on this new machine that we have?  Is this operator error?

Thanks again for taking the time to look at this.  I'm going to try creating a joint again from the top and I'll post my exact steps to see if you or someone can find something I'm doing wrong.

[tdswanson]

1. Open file BCDA Asm 20130524.iam
1a. Assembly has both plates shown with no fasteners or holes. Unconsumed sketch with points is shown on the top plate.

2. Design Tab > Bolted Connection

3. Change Placement Drop Down to "On Point". Type is set to blind.

4. Choose start plane as the top of the top plate

5. Choose the front LH point, intersection of 1.000" and 0.750" edge dimensions.

6. Choose the Blind Start plane as the top surface of the lower plate.

7. Choose "Click to add a fastener"

8. Change Category to "Socket Head Bolts"

9. Choose "Forged Head Socket Cap Screw Metric". It inserts a SHCS M6x1 x 35mm

10. Select the thru hole that says 6.600mm. Larger button with the down arrow.

11. Change hole to ANSI type for socket head cap screw

12. The text for the hole is now red and says "Normal 0.260 in"

13. Click OK anyway.

14. Bolts are present, but heads are above flush. Cbore in upper plate is Diam 0.400 in x 0.200 in deep.

What's happening? FYI - if I follow the same process and insert a 1/4"-20 SHCS, everything is cool......

[tdswanson]

OK, I've got this figured out and yes, I was doing something stupid.

When I changed the through hole type to a counterbore for a SHCS, I had the filter drop down set to "ANSI".  I had never noticed that there's a separate drop down called "ANSI (Metric)" which obviously points the application to a different data table.  Since the hole type just says "ANSI - Socket Head Cap Screw" instead of saying "ANSI (English) - Socket Head Cap Screw", I had never thought to look for a different ANSI standard that was specific to Metric SHCS's.  So I was trying to make an English Cbore for a metric screw.

Pretty stupid, I know.....  But if the first one would have let me know it was specific to English screws, I would have known to look for a different one.

Thanks for your time, glad it's worked out!

[rdyson]

Glad I could help, well, kind of anyway

[tdswanson]

No, no, you did help quite a bit!  You provided me with a valuable piece of information, which was that this problem was not created by AutoDesk through a patch or update or something.....  This made me look harder at what was going on.

Thanks again!

[JimmyDoe]

I know this is an old thread but have you ever messed around with the xml files for bolted connections that would allow you to select a tapered face so you can make a bolted connection using a tapered washer? We've had a lot of customization done through our reseller but they are stumped to find out how to use bolted connection with a tapered face (if even at all possible) Thanks.