Can you make this a more reliable model ?

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant

Can you make this a more reliable model ?

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

So the attached 2015 model is simplified example of a part that is being automated via iLogic as part of a larger design.

 

I've put a simple form in the part that you can use to adjust a workplane that controls a split feature.

822-11.JPG

 

The goal is to change the Offset value, and use a reference sketch to gather a couple of dimensions.822-22.JPG

 

The problem is the way that it will be used, the offset value can be larger than half the diameter, and so the reference sketch gets "lost":

 

822-33.JPG

 

 

The result is one dimension goes missing and the other stops updating correctly:

822-44.JPG

 

Does a more reliable way to create this model, so that the reference dimensions will work, come to mind?  I keep thinking that something will jump out at me, and as of yet nothing has.

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Curtis

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Replies (17)

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi Curtis,

 

You could change the bounds on your slider. See the values in the red box below.

2016-08-22 16_23_42-Autodesk Inventor Professional 2015.png

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

Hi Giordanik,


Thanks for the reply. In this case the slider is just to demonstrate the issue. In real life the value is driven from elsewhere.

 

And unfortunately, this value is not easily bound, as in some instances there will be an offset value and no diameter value, so it's not possible to check one against the other.

 

( Also, just FYI, the slider bounds restrict the slider, but do not restrict typed in values above or below that. )

 

Thanks again,
Curtis

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi Curtis,

 

Thanks for the info. 

 

Another idea is to make an iLogic rule that would suppress the sketch should it go larger or smaller than ±1.45mm (or the value of your choice). That should take care of the entered-value problem.

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

Hi Giordanik,

 

That would be outstanding! ... but alas we don't have that ability  Smiley Frustrated (unless I've missed something).

 

But you can go vote for the idea to allow this:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/feature-suppression-automatic-sketch-suppression/idi-p/...

 

Thanks again,

Curtis

Anonymous
Not applicable
Accepted solution

Hi Curtis,

 

Well, that's a bummer. See attached part document. I have made one of the profiles an infinitesimally small surface extrusion that should go unnoticed in any assembly. I consider the addition of this worthless feature one of the eggs that needs breaking for your omelet. If you have a better egg to break, let me know.

 

I have added the rule I talked about, except I moved the EOP instead of suppressing the sketch (because that is strangely impossible, as you pointed out).

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

Hi Giordanik,

 

Well I was kind of looking for a non-illogic solution, so I'll have to deduct 1/10 of a point. Smiley Wink But you earn back a full point for the clever use of the EOP.

 

I'm not sure if I can use this as a solution in the overall workflow or not, just yet. I'll have to put it in place and test it a bit to see. But it is a solution, so I'll accept it along with any others that someone might offer. For now though, I'm going to leave this thread unsolved to see if anyone else has some thoughts.

 

Thanks again!

Curtis

 

 

 

-niels-
Mentor
Mentor

Hi Curtis,

 

This isn't really my usual "cup of tea" but i gave it a shot.

I think this might be more "robust" by using min and max equations, see my attached model.

If you change the "Value" parameter it has hard limits set by using those.

I did recreate the model, so the ilogic is gone and even though it's a simple form i didn't want to figure out how to add it back.

I changed it so the origin plane is now used as the split plane, so the reference sketch remains on a non-moving plane.

 

As a reference for the min/max i also found this blog post:

https://designandmotion.net/autodesk/inventor/parameters/inventor-parameter-min-max/

 

Hope this is what you were after....


Niels van der Veer
Inventor professional user & 3DS Max enthusiast
Vault professional user/manager
The Netherlands

admaiora
Mentor
Mentor

Not sure if i have understood, all.

 

But could this work?

 

 

e.gif

Admaiora
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Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi Curtis,

 

I love my wife to bits. That said, you do kind of remind me of when she "lets" me pick where we go to dine out. It's an iterative process, except I get full credit with you. 🙂 Thanks for the feedback.

 

Alas, I am running Inventor Professional 2015 so I could not see Neils' model. I have never used a max/min function in parameters and I got excited to see a live specimen for a second there.

 

To make the iLogic adaptive, you could include parameters instead of the outright values (-1.45, 1.45). You could make a custom parameter to be the radius, setting that as the bound for the EOP. Out of curiosity, why would you want to shy away from iLogic? 

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-niels-
Mentor
Mentor
Accepted solution

@Anonymous: let's prolong that excitement for another second...Smiley LOL

Here's a screenshot of the parameter window of my part:

2016-08-23_1518.png

It's not all that exciting, i just made sure there was a safety margin equal to the shell thickness.

At the minimum value it should have been "(d6+some offset value)" instead of "0.2" but i forgot to change that and 0.11 would have worked as well.

And like the blog post mentioned, it's kinda backwards...


Niels van der Veer
Inventor professional user & 3DS Max enthusiast
Vault professional user/manager
The Netherlands

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous wrote:

 

Out of curiosity, why would you want to shy away from iLogic? 


This model is part of a larger set of customization, of an assembly. Currently, the user can make changes at the assembly level in a certain order that will put the offset value higher than the diameter of this part. In these cases it doesn't matter to the overall design because this part is not in use at that time, but it creates an error and causes the reference dimensions of the sketch to become upset. If the user then choses to enable this option at the assembly level, then this model no longer works.

 

Mostly I just felt there was some better way to approach the model that I was missing due to my own tunnel vision of having fixed that sketch  a dozen times during my testing of the configured assembly. And I thought someone else might see a solution more clearly.

 

So also just for curiosity, and for future reference I suppose.

 


@Anonymous wrote:

 

To make the iLogic adaptive, you could include parameters instead of the outright values (-1.45, 1.45). You could make a custom parameter to be the radius, setting that as the bound for the EOP.


Indeed, that's what I did yesterday after you posted your file. I ended up with the attached version (Inventor 2015), which looks like it would work just fine.

 

Thanks!

Curtis

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

HI admaiora,

 

Thanks for having a look at this.

 

It appears you're model works, but I can't tell what you've done.

 

Thanks again,
Curtis

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Hi Curtis,

 

Ah. So you were trying to get a pure modeling solution to the problem. There is value in simplicity. iLogic has thrown a wrench into more than one design for me. 

 

Something else I thought of - Using equations for arcs and triangles, you might be able to get the values in the sketch. It would be pure "modeling" but a bit complicated and probably not exact, but close. Unfortunately I don't have the time to get into it at the moment. Possibly later I'll post something. 

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

Hi -niels-,

 

Thanks for looking at this as well.

 

MIN / MAX would work well if I were playing by normal rules, but in this case I expect the Offset to exceed the diameter, I just want the reference sketch to stay together when it does.

 

It's sort of a "Schrödinger's cat" model that I want to allow to be broken and not broken at the same time.   Smiley Wink

 

Thanks again,

Curits

Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

@Anonymous wrote:

 So you were trying to get a pure modeling solution to the problem.


Hi Giordanik,

 

Yep that was what I was after. And to that point, I've just noticed that if I make the reference sketch a 3D sketch, it doesn't seem to break the same way the 2D sketch does? At least so far. So that might be the simplest solution.

 

I'm likely going to run with your iLogic EOP solution and the 3D sketch for a while to see if the 3D sketch will really hold up, or if I've just not turned it inside out enough to break yet.

 

Thanks,
Curtis

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admaiora
Mentor
Mentor
Accepted solution

Hi @Curtis_Waguespack ,

 

i have removed the Projected Cut Edges and just replaced with classic projected edges (just 2 edges)

 

 

 

Admaiora
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Curtis_Waguespack
Consultant
Consultant

Hi admaiora,

 

Ahhh! That's interesting. I hadn't caught that the difference in projecting methods behaved differently in this case.

 

Thanks you,
Curtis

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We use NMPI Display to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by NMPI Display. Ads are based on both NMPI Display data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that NMPI Display has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to NMPI Display to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. NMPI Display Privacy Policy
VK
We use VK to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by VK. Ads are based on both VK data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that VK has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to VK to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. VK Privacy Policy
Adobe Target
We use Adobe Target to test new features on our sites and customize your experience of these features. To do this, we collect behavioral data while you’re on our sites. This data may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, your IP address or device ID, your Autodesk ID, and others. You may experience a different version of our sites based on feature testing, or view personalized content based on your visitor attributes. Adobe Target Privacy Policy
Google Analytics (Advertising)
We use Google Analytics (Advertising) to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Google Analytics (Advertising). Ads are based on both Google Analytics (Advertising) data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Google Analytics (Advertising) has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Google Analytics (Advertising) to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Google Analytics (Advertising) Privacy Policy
Trendkite
We use Trendkite to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Trendkite. Ads are based on both Trendkite data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Trendkite has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Trendkite to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Trendkite Privacy Policy
Hotjar
We use Hotjar to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Hotjar. Ads are based on both Hotjar data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Hotjar has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Hotjar to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Hotjar Privacy Policy
6 Sense
We use 6 Sense to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by 6 Sense. Ads are based on both 6 Sense data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that 6 Sense has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to 6 Sense to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. 6 Sense Privacy Policy
Terminus
We use Terminus to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by Terminus. Ads are based on both Terminus data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that Terminus has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to Terminus to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. Terminus Privacy Policy
StackAdapt
We use StackAdapt to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by StackAdapt. Ads are based on both StackAdapt data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that StackAdapt has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to StackAdapt to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. StackAdapt Privacy Policy
The Trade Desk
We use The Trade Desk to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by The Trade Desk. Ads are based on both The Trade Desk data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that The Trade Desk has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to The Trade Desk to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. The Trade Desk Privacy Policy
RollWorks
We use RollWorks to deploy digital advertising on sites supported by RollWorks. Ads are based on both RollWorks data and behavioral data that we collect while you’re on our sites. The data we collect may include pages you’ve visited, trials you’ve initiated, videos you’ve played, purchases you’ve made, and your IP address or device ID. This information may be combined with data that RollWorks has collected from you. We use the data that we provide to RollWorks to better customize your digital advertising experience and present you with more relevant ads. RollWorks Privacy Policy

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