Adding .IFC and .LandXML files to Infraworks - don't see them in InfraWorks ;-(

[ivan_donets]

We have a problem with Infraworks - it cannot open .IFC and .LANDXML files in Israeli Grid (or in other grids). Files are opening in Civil3d, but it seems that InfraWorks (2023 & 2024) is lacking functionality which is present in Civil3d, so cannot open ifc and landxml, or shows it distorted (when change units - mm, cm). worst is that when we tried to add two files together - ifc + landxml to infraworks - it stopped showing (even after "select features"). changing grid makes all data invisible ;(

We opened other ifc / landxml - they showed also textures/materials for ground (surfaces/pipes) - but they are not showed here (if at all in some successful combination of settings model from ifc/landxml is showing).  

also we don't see labels / markers of height in landxml files. in other files they were showing. we need to see those markers of heights.

biggest problem with InfraWorks is that it is so sensitive about Grid settings, that changing it a little - will make whole object disappear. I think this is very bad to have grids in Infraworks at all. there should be no grids, and like in Civil3d - everything should show as it is without all those strange conversions from one grid to other. This simply don't work in any of Infraworks (2023, 2024). it distors geometry, and then it also may disappear. it may move object to some other location, but it is so bad that camera doesn't move automatically to show object (which just was added to infraworks - be it ifc or landxml) in center of screen zoomed to fit screen. Ideally it should be like in Civil3d - when we add file to Infraworks - there should be no additional configuration of grid. and it should show. unfortunately it doesn't show automatically, it is very dangerous and bad decision to add grids to Infraworks. thus makes a big hell for so many people who write here on support of Infraworks saying they cannot open their files in Infraworks. please remove grids from Infraworks, and make all objects to show simply according to x,y,z coordinates. if there extra additional data - like shifth of objects - ok - move them accordingly (like in IFC there is possibility to set coordinates for building, land location - latitude/longitude) - but why do these transforms using grids? if the whole idea is to show all the projects on Earth globe - it is best that whole community of people who create projects for InfraWorks use same grid for everyone. please make one and only one grid standard for all infraworks projects.

otherwise what we see now - we have to spend hours without any luck changing grids from this to that - and maybe sometimes it may appear, but in wrong grid (we want Israeli Grid). So people become unhappy if they don't see objects in their grids in Infraworks.

In Infraworks 2023 there was a problem- changing grid (default LL84) - to IsraeliGrid will make whole object (ifc/landxml) disappear from Infraworks. even when click "select features" in context menu - will not show it.

Other problem is with units. huge problem. it is related with IFC. when we change units in IFC file (inside there is something like =IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,.CENTI.,.METRE.); ) -   if we change it to meters or millimeters - zoom stops working well. Then bad is that we cannot scroll the model/object. also problem - bigger - if we set units in IFC (IFCSIUNIT) to units which we want (say millimeters - to be most precise) - InfraWorks don't show it all correfctly, and all pipes / manholes are like "drunkard" - their coordinates become wrong, and begin and end points of lines become wrong. it looks like probkem similar to Unity3d problem (physics / game engine) when we set rigidbody for objects, and then some forces are applied to objects, so they start to interact with each other, some physical formulas start to work between objects. it seems that same problem happens with Infraworks models - geometry seems to be shown all in 3d engine (like Unity3d), and thus it createse huge problems. please turn-off all these physical formuals (rigid-bodies etc) for pipes and manholes etc (any objects) in Infraworks. otherwise - you spoil everything. our users want to use Infraworks for ifc and landxml, but what Infraworks does - is that it cannot load ifc and landxmls properly. here I write what I notice with my experience as C# programmer in graphics (ifc, landxml, unity3d etc). 

we had to make not happy decision to set default units in IFC files to centimeters - because Infraworks make it all distorted otherwise in meters or in millimeters. please, don't do those simplification of geometry. I think this is waht you do in Infraworks 3d. like in Unity3d I know it is possible to set level of details, and when it is set to some value - then some details disappear, and it becomes drafts or even like "drunkard" (yes, like one who drinks alcohol - vodka etc). it is what Infraworks does. maybe you didn'y notice it. be I do notice. please, don't make Infraworks rely on units and grids! it is very bad. Civil3d / Autocad doesn't do it. all which is written to file is as it is (I mean xml, ifc). but in Infraworks it seems that Infraworks is thinking out something which is not there in the project. if this is some "artificial intelligence" in Infraworks - please remove it all. it should not add anything which is not in file itself (ifc, landxml etc).

it looks like Infraworks is trying to play with itself (Infraworks) as a game. this is very bad. Infraworks should be a serious program, but I see that Infraworks is more like a computer game, which is buggy, and for work - not applicable. what Infraworks does is not serious and responsible at all. IFC is international free / open format to exchange 3d-models etc, but Infraworks don't open it well for strange reasons. in versions 2023 it was almost not working for any grid except default LL84. but we need IsraeliGrid (and maybe also others). Infraworks 2024 seems to start working a little better with ifcs, but still when we add to infraworks project with ifc also add then a landxml-file - it all disappears. or instead of proper pipes/pipelines we see some distorted geometries from pipes. it was like that when we generated ifc files and were struggling with setting units in ifc files. it all almost didn't work well - bad zoom, no scroll, and units are not as we wanted (millimeters). objects were shown in Infraworks in wrong locations. now this is same in Infraworks 2024 - but for ifc files in which we cannot change anything else like units or geometry - all that is set already, in proper coordinates. what Infraworks does is applying strange "artificial intelligence" which spoils models, their geometries, coordinates, and makes some parts disappear from scnece, or often - they all disappear - from ifc/landxml...

very sad. we have commercial genuine licenses for Infraworks 2024, and still Infraworks seems to be almost unusable/useless. please fix it all

we check files in Civil3d. and we suggest they also must open well then in Infraworks, why then they are not opening in IW-2024, if Civil3d opens them well?

[ivan_donets]

We have a problem with Infraworks - it cannot open .IFC and .LANDXML files in Israeli Grid (or in other grids). Files are opening in Civil3d, but it seems that InfraWorks (2023 & 2024) is lacking functionality which is present in Civil3d, so cannot open ifc and landxml, or shows it distorted (when change units - mm, cm). worst is that when we tried to add two files together - ifc + landxml to infraworks - it stopped showing (even after "select features"). changing grid makes all data invisible ;(

We opened other ifc / landxml - they showed also textures/materials for ground (surfaces/pipes) - but they are not showed here (if at all in some successful combination of settings model from ifc/landxml is showing).  

also we don't see labels / markers of height in landxml files. in other files they were showing. we need to see those markers of heights.

biggest problem with InfraWorks is that it is so sensitive about Grid settings, that changing it a little - will make whole object disappear. I think this is very bad to have grids in Infraworks at all. there should be no grids, and like in Civil3d - everything should show as it is without all those strange conversions from one grid to other. This simply don't work in any of Infraworks (2023, 2024). it distors geometry, and then it also may disappear. it may move object to some other location, but it is so bad that camera doesn't move automatically to show object (which just was added to infraworks - be it ifc or landxml) in center of screen zoomed to fit screen. Ideally it should be like in Civil3d - when we add file to Infraworks - there should be no additional configuration of grid. and it should show. unfortunately it doesn't show automatically, it is very dangerous and bad decision to add grids to Infraworks. thus makes a big hell for so many people who write here on support of Infraworks saying they cannot open their files in Infraworks. please remove grids from Infraworks, and make all objects to show simply according to x,y,z coordinates. if there extra additional data - like shifth of objects - ok - move them accordingly (like in IFC there is possibility to set coordinates for building, land location - latitude/longitude) - but why do these transforms using grids? if the whole idea is to show all the projects on Earth globe - it is best that whole community of people who create projects for InfraWorks use same grid for everyone. please make one and only one grid standard for all infraworks projects.

otherwise what we see now - we have to spend hours without any luck changing grids from this to that - and maybe sometimes it may appear, but in wrong grid (we want Israeli Grid). So people become unhappy if they don't see objects in their grids in Infraworks.

In Infraworks 2023 there was a problem- changing grid (default LL84) - to IsraeliGrid will make whole object (ifc/landxml) disappear from Infraworks. even when click "select features" in context menu - will not show it.

Other problem is with units. huge problem. it is related with IFC. when we change units in IFC file (inside there is something like =IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,.CENTI.,.METRE.); ) -   if we change it to meters or millimeters - zoom stops working well. Then bad is that we cannot scroll the model/object. also problem - bigger - if we set units in IFC (IFCSIUNIT) to units which we want (say millimeters - to be most precise) - InfraWorks don't show it all correfctly, and all pipes / manholes are like "drunkard" - their coordinates become wrong, and begin and end points of lines become wrong. it looks like probkem similar to Unity3d problem (physics / game engine) when we set rigidbody for objects, and then some forces are applied to objects, so they start to interact with each other, some physical formulas start to work between objects. it seems that same problem happens with Infraworks models - geometry seems to be shown all in 3d engine (like Unity3d), and thus it createse huge problems. please turn-off all these physical formuals (rigid-bodies etc) for pipes and manholes etc (any objects) in Infraworks. otherwise - you spoil everything. our users want to use Infraworks for ifc and landxml, but what Infraworks does - is that it cannot load ifc and landxmls properly. here I write what I notice with my experience as C# programmer in graphics (ifc, landxml, unity3d etc). 

we had to make not happy decision to set default units in IFC files to centimeters - because Infraworks make it all distorted otherwise in meters or in millimeters. please, don't do those simplification of geometry. I think this is waht you do in Infraworks 3d. like in Unity3d I know it is possible to set level of details, and when it is set to some value - then some details disappear, and it becomes drafts or even like "drunkard" (yes, like one who drinks alcohol - vodka etc). it is what Infraworks does. maybe you didn'y notice it. be I do notice. please, don't make Infraworks rely on units and grids! it is very bad. Civil3d / Autocad doesn't do it. all which is written to file is as it is (I mean xml, ifc). but in Infraworks it seems that Infraworks is thinking out something which is not there in the project. if this is some "artificial intelligence" in Infraworks - please remove it all. it should not add anything which is not in file itself (ifc, landxml etc).

it looks like Infraworks is trying to play with itself (Infraworks) as a game. this is very bad. Infraworks should be a serious program, but I see that Infraworks is more like a computer game, which is buggy, and for work - not applicable. what Infraworks does is not serious and responsible at all. IFC is international free / open format to exchange 3d-models etc, but Infraworks don't open it well for strange reasons. in versions 2023 it was almost not working for any grid except default LL84. but we need IsraeliGrid (and maybe also others). Infraworks 2024 seems to start working a little better with ifcs, but still when we add to infraworks project with ifc also add then a landxml-file - it all disappears. or instead of proper pipes/pipelines we see some distorted geometries from pipes. it was like that when we generated ifc files and were struggling with setting units in ifc files. it all almost didn't work well - bad zoom, no scroll, and units are not as we wanted (millimeters). objects were shown in Infraworks in wrong locations. now this is same in Infraworks 2024 - but for ifc files in which we cannot change anything else like units or geometry - all that is set already, in proper coordinates. what Infraworks does is applying strange "artificial intelligence" which spoils models, their geometries, coordinates, and makes some parts disappear from scnece, or often - they all disappear - from ifc/landxml...

very sad. we have commercial genuine licenses for Infraworks 2024, and still Infraworks seems to be almost unusable/useless. please fix it all

we check files in Civil3d. and we suggest they also must open well then in Infraworks, why then they are not opening in IW-2024, if Civil3d opens them well?

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @ivan_donets ,

thanks for all your feedback.

I'm answering to your key points:

• InfraWorks uses coordinate systems because it's designed to rebuild the world. The world is a sphere (more or less) and you need cartographic solutions (=geographic coordinate systems) to locate objects. InfraWorks can import all kind of differently geo-referenced files and transform it on the fly, so that everything matches up nicely in the model. This is a huge advantage and if workflows and data are handled correctly, it works great.  
• InfraWorks has issues with 3D model geometry and working with large coordinates. This is a known issue, and it results in geometry corruption in the model. Workarounds are available (i.e. move everything close to X,Y = 0,0, import into InfraWorks and shift it back to the original position).
• If data is loaded, but the wrong coordinate system is selected in the data source configuration, the objects are placed out of the model boundary. It could be somewhere in space, or the model is scaled 1000 times if wrong units are selected. It's really important to know what coordinate system my data source uses and which units it has.

If you have a specific problem and if you can share sample data, I will be happy to take a look and see if there is an issue with the software, the source data or the workflow. If it's software, we have the chance to inform the development team, so they can consider fixing it.

Best Regards,

Karsten.

[Karsten.Saenger]

Hi @ivan_donets ,

thanks for all your feedback.

I'm answering to your key points:

• InfraWorks uses coordinate systems because it's designed to rebuild the world. The world is a sphere (more or less) and you need cartographic solutions (=geographic coordinate systems) to locate objects. InfraWorks can import all kind of differently geo-referenced files and transform it on the fly, so that everything matches up nicely in the model. This is a huge advantage and if workflows and data are handled correctly, it works great.  
• InfraWorks has issues with 3D model geometry and working with large coordinates. This is a known issue, and it results in geometry corruption in the model. Workarounds are available (i.e. move everything close to X,Y = 0,0, import into InfraWorks and shift it back to the original position).
• If data is loaded, but the wrong coordinate system is selected in the data source configuration, the objects are placed out of the model boundary. It could be somewhere in space, or the model is scaled 1000 times if wrong units are selected. It's really important to know what coordinate system my data source uses and which units it has.

If you have a specific problem and if you can share sample data, I will be happy to take a look and see if there is an issue with the software, the source data or the workflow. If it's software, we have the chance to inform the development team, so they can consider fixing it.

Best Regards,

Karsten.

[ivan_donets]

I made simplest ifc + landxml files - with only one rectangle (1000 x 1000) in each file.

Very strange is that one rectangle is bigger/smaller than the other around 3 times. why?

I attach the ifc+xml files,

please see what is wrong there.

(I renamed .ifc to .ifc.txt, I don't know why I can't upload .ifc files here)

I don't understand also which coordinate systems I have to set in both ifc and landxml files. 

here - https://help.autodesk.com/view/INFMDR/ENU/?guid=IWGettingStarted_KeyConcepts_AboutCoordinateSystemsA... -

is written that I require some "world file":
"
In rare cases, data that you bring into your model may not display properly if it was assigned the incorrect coordinate system(s) during configuration. This normally only occurs when you bring in 3D model data that uses a custom coordinate system with no world file.
"

where do I get it from? how to set it for my ifc/landxml?

also here - 

https://help.autodesk.com/view/INFMDR/ENU/?guid=GUID-ADC0B758-7054-4A4F-A30D-46F0DA6901E8

is written that A means source coordinate system, and B - is target coordinate system.

I don't understand which to choose. 

In my files I write the following :

---

[in ifc file]:

#29= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,$,.METRE.);

#39= IFCPROJECTEDCRS('EPSG:2039','EPSG:2039','Israel 1993 / Israeli TM Grid',$,$,$,$);
#41= IFCMAPCONVERSION(#11,#39,192069.,585197.,0.,0.,0.,0.);

---

[in landxml file]:

<Units>
<Metric linearUnit="meter"></Metric>
</Units>
<CoordinateSystem desc="Israel 1993 / Israeli TM Grid" epsgCode="2039" ogcWktCode="PROJCS[&quot;Israel.IsraeliGrid&quot;,GEOGCS[&quot;Israel.LL&quot;,DATUM[&quot;Israel&quot;,SPHEROID[&quot;GRS1980&quot;,6378137.000,298.25722210],TOWGS84[-48.0000,55.0000,52.0000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.00000000]],PRIMEM[&quot;Greenwich&quot;,0],UNIT[&quot;Degree&quot;,0.017453292519943295]],PROJECTION[&quot;Transverse_Mercator&quot;],PARAMETER[&quot;false_easting&quot;,219529.584],PARAMETER[&quot;false_northing&quot;,626907.390],PARAMETER[&quot;scale_factor&quot;,1.000006700000],PARAMETER[&quot;central_meridian&quot;,35.20451694444445],PARAMETER[&quot;latitude_of_origin&quot;,31.73439361111111],UNIT[&quot;Meter&quot;,1.00000000000000]]" horizontalDatum="Israel" horizontalCoordinateSystemName="Israel.IsraeliGrid" fileLocation="AutoCAD Map Zone Name"></CoordinateSystem>

---

so I mean to say that in both ifc and landxml I have set meters, and same coord system - Israeli Grid,

but ifc vs landxml are shown with 3 times zoom in/out, though both files have same rectangle with same size (only difference is where it is placed vertically)

what I do wrong? or is this a bug in Infraworks?

[ivan_donets]

I made simplest ifc + landxml files - with only one rectangle (1000 x 1000) in each file.

Very strange is that one rectangle is bigger/smaller than the other around 3 times. why?

I attach the ifc+xml files,

please see what is wrong there.

(I renamed .ifc to .ifc.txt, I don't know why I can't upload .ifc files here)

I don't understand also which coordinate systems I have to set in both ifc and landxml files. 

here - https://help.autodesk.com/view/INFMDR/ENU/?guid=IWGettingStarted_KeyConcepts_AboutCoordinateSystemsA... -

is written that I require some "world file":
"
In rare cases, data that you bring into your model may not display properly if it was assigned the incorrect coordinate system(s) during configuration. This normally only occurs when you bring in 3D model data that uses a custom coordinate system with no world file.
"

where do I get it from? how to set it for my ifc/landxml?

also here - 

https://help.autodesk.com/view/INFMDR/ENU/?guid=GUID-ADC0B758-7054-4A4F-A30D-46F0DA6901E8

is written that A means source coordinate system, and B - is target coordinate system.

I don't understand which to choose. 

In my files I write the following :

---

[in ifc file]:

#29= IFCSIUNIT(*,.LENGTHUNIT.,$,.METRE.);

#39= IFCPROJECTEDCRS('EPSG:2039','EPSG:2039','Israel 1993 / Israeli TM Grid',$,$,$,$);
#41= IFCMAPCONVERSION(#11,#39,192069.,585197.,0.,0.,0.,0.);

---

[in landxml file]:

<Units>
<Metric linearUnit="meter"></Metric>
</Units>
<CoordinateSystem desc="Israel 1993 / Israeli TM Grid" epsgCode="2039" ogcWktCode="PROJCS[&quot;Israel.IsraeliGrid&quot;,GEOGCS[&quot;Israel.LL&quot;,DATUM[&quot;Israel&quot;,SPHEROID[&quot;GRS1980&quot;,6378137.000,298.25722210],TOWGS84[-48.0000,55.0000,52.0000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.00000000]],PRIMEM[&quot;Greenwich&quot;,0],UNIT[&quot;Degree&quot;,0.017453292519943295]],PROJECTION[&quot;Transverse_Mercator&quot;],PARAMETER[&quot;false_easting&quot;,219529.584],PARAMETER[&quot;false_northing&quot;,626907.390],PARAMETER[&quot;scale_factor&quot;,1.000006700000],PARAMETER[&quot;central_meridian&quot;,35.20451694444445],PARAMETER[&quot;latitude_of_origin&quot;,31.73439361111111],UNIT[&quot;Meter&quot;,1.00000000000000]]" horizontalDatum="Israel" horizontalCoordinateSystemName="Israel.IsraeliGrid" fileLocation="AutoCAD Map Zone Name"></CoordinateSystem>

---

so I mean to say that in both ifc and landxml I have set meters, and same coord system - Israeli Grid,

but ifc vs landxml are shown with 3 times zoom in/out, though both files have same rectangle with same size (only difference is where it is placed vertically)

what I do wrong? or is this a bug in Infraworks?