Hole position post

Hole position post

steve
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Message 1 of 28

Hole position post

steve
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

I've having trouble trying to figure out why my HAAS post isn't ordering hole locations in a consistent manner.

 

I have 4 holes in a row. With the center drill and the tap drill, everyting looks great

 

G98 G81 X0.25 Y-0.875 Z1.0466 R1.2266 F25.
X2.
X4.
X5.75

I copied the toolpath and changed the tool to a tap. Same hole order,  same option "optimize order" checked but now the tool motion is back and forth

 

G0 Z1.4266
G98 G84 X0.25 Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 F17.8572
G80
G0 Z1.4266
G98 G84 X2. Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 F17.8572
G80
G1 X0.25 Z1.4266 F500.
G98 G84 X4. Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 F17.8572
G80
G1 X0.25 Z1.4266 F500.
G98 G84 X5.75 Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 F17.8572
G80

I don't understand why it's repeatedly canceling the cyle and returning to the first hole position for every hole.

 

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Message 2 of 28

Laurens-3DTechDraw
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Well the order of the holes is still the same but indeed it will go too far up and down again if it calls the cycle again for each hole. Is it possible you share your part and post processor with us?

Laurens Wijnschenk
3DTechDraw

AutoDesk CAM user & Post editor.
Found out the hard way is the best way to win.


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Message 3 of 28

steve
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The assembly is a little big to share but the hole geometry is pretty simple as you can see in the attachment. The 4 holes are identical in configuration and were picked in sequence for each of the center drill, tap drill and tapping cycles. The center and drill toolpaths posted as optimized, the tap not. The post is the current generic Haas post (I have a VF-2)

 

I can restore earlier posts to troubleshoot the problem but I was wondering if anyone else had encountered this behavior.

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Message 4 of 28

Laurens-3DTechDraw
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In that post, for some reason the cycle is forced for tapping.

@AchimN can you explain this?

Laurens Wijnschenk
3DTechDraw

AutoDesk CAM user & Post editor.
Found out the hard way is the best way to win.


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Message 5 of 28

steve
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They are 4 identical threaded holes - I use a center drill, the tap drill and the tap. I'm not sure why the Haas post doesn't optimize the tap cyle as it does with the other 2 cycles. Actually, when I first posted it, the drill cycle was going througt he same erratic motion with the G80 cancel and return to inital position. I changed a couple of the approach heights and when I reposted it was fixed. I don't know if this problem is associated with the post procesor or somethign about the SW/HSM interaction. I guess I'll find an older post processor to try

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Message 6 of 28

Laurens-3DTechDraw
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What you see with the tapping now is something specific for the Haas post.

You would see different code with the fanuc post.

Laurens Wijnschenk
3DTechDraw

AutoDesk CAM user & Post editor.
Found out the hard way is the best way to win.


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Message 7 of 28

steve
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(TAP 14 X 28)
M09
M01
G49
T7 M06
T15
S500 M03
G54
M08
G00 X0.25 Y-0.875
G43 Z1.8266 H07
G00 Z1.4266
M29 S500
G84 X0.25 Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 P0 F17.9
G80
Z1.4266
M29 S500
G84 X2. Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 P0 F17.9
G80
X0.25 Z1.4266
M29 S500
G84 X4. Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 P0 F17.9
G80
X0.25 Z1.4266
M29 S500
G84 X5.75 Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 P0 F17.9
G80
Z1.8266

the Fanuc post (above) is the same

 

I don't see why this hole isn't processed the same as the others. It's not so much G84/G80 for each every hole that bothers me, but why send the spindle back to the first hole position every time? (X0.25) ?

 

G84 X0.25 Y-0.875 Z0.6875 R1.3701 P0 F17.9
X2. 
X4. 
X5.75 
G80
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Message 8 of 28

Laurens-3DTechDraw
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Well, that means all posts were edited in the latest update. Because this is madness!

Laurens Wijnschenk
3DTechDraw

AutoDesk CAM user & Post editor.
Found out the hard way is the best way to win.


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Message 9 of 28

Steinwerks
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Can you share your settings tabs for the tapping cycle?
Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
Instagram and YouTube
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Message 10 of 28

Laurens-3DTechDraw
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Well those shouldn't matter if you ask me.

It's a fault in the post because it repositions to the cycle's first X and Y. So the cycle comes correctly to the post but the post messes up badly.

Laurens Wijnschenk
3DTechDraw

AutoDesk CAM user & Post editor.
Found out the hard way is the best way to win.


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Message 11 of 28

steve
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

apperently there is something about my model that is causing this irregularity. I just programmed a new part and the drill/tap toolpaths output as expected. I'll let you know if I ever figure out what it is.

 

(Tap 1/4-20)
M9
M1
T9 M6
S500 M3
G54
M8
G0 X5.625 Y-0.65
G43 Z0.635 H9
G0 Z0.235
G98 G84 X5.625 Y-0.65 Z-0.8925 R-0.0425 F25.
X4.875
X4.125
X3.375
X2.625
X1.875
X1.125
X0.375
G80
G0 Z0.635
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Message 12 of 28

Steinwerks
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@Laurens-3DTechDraw wrote:

Well those shouldn't matter if you ask me.

It's a fault in the post because it repositions to the cycle's first X and Y. So the cycle comes correctly to the post but the post messes up badly.


 

 

Perhaps they shouldn't but do.

Wouldn't be the first time, and we don't know if the cycle is getting to the post correctly because a tapping cycle is not the same as a drill cycle even if the geometry was selected identically by duplicating the previous drill operation.

And aren't I allowed to be curious?

Neal Stein

New to Fusion 360 CAM? Click here for an introduction to 2D Milling, here for 2D Turning.

Find me on:
Instagram and YouTube
Message 13 of 28

Lonnie.Cady
Advisor
Advisor

@steve I have the same issue and reporeted it a couple of months ago.  It returns to the initial hole each time.  It is not in the post as far as I can tell since I can delete the operation and create a new one and it will work.  I know this is a strange question but do the holes break thru the curved surface.  I can't see from the image.  I drill many cross drilled hole thru curved surfaces and that seems to be where the problems occur most often.  I also have issues when drilling thru to a curved surface the I get a drill cycle for each hole instead of a drill cycle followed by drill positions.

 

 

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Message 14 of 28

Rob_Lockwood
Advisor
Advisor
Inconsistent bottom depths would be a good way to force the output of an individual canned cycle.. It's even entirely possible it would look stupid in the final result, if the variance was less than the format allowed for digits.. returning to the first hole is indeed weird, though.


Rob Lockwood
Maker of all the things.
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Message 15 of 28

Laurens-3DTechDraw
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@Rob_Lockwood wrote:
Inconsistent bottom depths would be a good way to force the output of an individual canned cycle.. It's even entirely possible it would look stupid in the final result, if the variance was less than the format allowed for digits.. returning to the first hole is indeed weird, though.

True,

But the return of the first hole indeed suggests a different problem.

But this is in the latest Haas post:

  switch (cycleType) {
  case "tapping-with-chip-breaking":
  case "left-tapping-with-chip-breaking":
  case "right-tapping-with-chip-breaking":
    forceCycle = true;
    if (!isFirstCyclePoint()) {
      writeBlock(gCycleModal.format(80));
      gMotionModal.reset();
    }
  }

That code forces the whole cycle to be output for every hole.

So there shouldn't be a way around, no matter how you program yoru tapping cycle.

Laurens Wijnschenk
3DTechDraw

AutoDesk CAM user & Post editor.
Found out the hard way is the best way to win.


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Message 16 of 28

Lonnie.Cady
Advisor
Advisor

@Rob_Lockwood That was exactly my thought.  The situaltion is a long hole about .5" diameter intersected at 90 deg by several holes in line with each other.  I assumed the break thru depth was varing enough to trigger the output of another canned cycle.  However I posted to the dump file so I could see the extended numbers and they were exactly the same.   I was expecting to see some small variance out many decimal places past the 4th but never did.

 

If I remember correctly, if I changed the setting from hole bottom to a depth from top of model it worked correctly.  This would seem to confirm the thought about the hole depth varing at some very small level.

 

 

I have had the same issuse as OP and for some reason seem to remember it happing on holes with curved surfaces so when I saw his part thought maybe there was something there.  Then again my memory could be completely off.

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Message 17 of 28

KerimY
Alumni
Alumni

The only reason for repeating cycles is a different hole depth (even if not visible into the cycle itself because of formatting the Z-values).
So even for very small differences in hole depth the software will force the post to output a single cycle for each hole.
The reason for forcing the "tap with chip breaking" cycle into the haas post is that haas does not have a G84 with chip breaking, so we are outputting a cycle for each stepdown to be able to have chip breaking tapping.

---

KerimY
Software Engineer
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Message 18 of 28

Lonnie.Cady
Advisor
Advisor

That still does not explain why it returns back to the first hole after every subsequent hole.

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Message 19 of 28

Laurens-3DTechDraw
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@KerimY wrote:

The only reason for repeating cycles is a different hole depth (even if not visible into the cycle itself because of formatting the Z-values).
So even for very small differences in hole depth the software will force the post to output a single cycle for each hole.


Yes we understand that part. But as @Lonnie.Cady says why does it reposition to the first hole location?

 


@KerimY wrote:

The reason for forcing the "tap with chip breaking" cycle into the haas post is that haas does not have a G84 with chip breaking, so we are outputting a cycle for each stepdown to be able to have chip breaking tapping.


 

If the re-calling of the cycle is for that maybe we should make a post property for that so that people who don't have the parameter set correctly can still safely use the post.(You can't just assume it is set correctly)

 

 

Apart form that I just heard you are part of Autodesk so I recommend you get your profile representing that since now nobody knows who you are and what you do.

Laurens Wijnschenk
3DTechDraw

AutoDesk CAM user & Post editor.
Found out the hard way is the best way to win.


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Message 20 of 28

steve
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

My first hole set did pass through curved surfaces but the first thing I did was suppress those intersecting features and reselect the "clean" holes. I didn't think to delete the entire toolpath but I'll try that. The repeating canned cycle isn't so much of an issue as the repeated jog to the initial hole position. I think the whole thing must be related to some irregularity in the model (even though the subject hole-features are copied) because I've never seen that behavior before and it seems independent of posts. 

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