Add strategy: Plunge roughing

[miechh]

It would be a great feature in HSM Express to have a Plunge Roughing strategy. For some large chambers to mill (600 mm diameter, 80 mm deep) our cnc-tools supplier recommended using this strategy in combination with a large bore-mill. See picture:

[ArjanDijk]

If you have a modern machine, you could use adaptive clearing instead. Its just a different approach for machining big amounts of material, but it its an approach that is less demanding in regards of the rigidity of the machine.

plunge roughing is still a nice method for machines with high rigidity and low memory, but it is nog supported at the moment. Maybe you can do something with a drilling cycle and drawing a lot of holes.

[miechh]

That's the point; our machine is from approximately 1995, is pretty rigid and has indeed not much memory. As stated in the original idea, our cnc-tools supplier/consultant advised us (for specific situations) to use plunge roughing. I know that adaptive clearing also works, we use this for 90% of our projects.

Using drill-cycles would be an option, but for such a large quantity of material to remove (read: LOTS of drill positions!), how should I tell HSM Express where to place the holes? It would be too much work to sketch all hole centers and be certain to remove as much material as possible, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Might see if it is possible to get your tooling guy to supply the program.   

I too have a few parts that Plung roughing is reccomened.   Might have to dig up that old cam program.  

[ArjanDijk]

If you want to use this strategy you will need to  do some workaround. Maybe Ilogic can help you to create a plunge roughing pattern, don't know myself how to do this, but you can investigate this if it is important enough for you.

[tim_paul]

Plung rouging definitely has it's place. When/If it is added I wouldn't expect it to make it into Xpress though. 

[al.whatmough]

This is something that is on a radar.  However, it is easier said then done.  So, current projects will take priority over this one.

[Greg_Haisley]

I currently have to create a centerline for the slot length. Add points for plunge drilling cycle (G81) with end mill. SolidWorks has added the segment function from the sketch menu. This allows the user to segment a sketch line or arc with any numbers of points. Great function for this slot roughing idea.

Program the drilling cycle using these points. This is the only way for machining narrow deep slots. Example .096 wide x .500 long x .300 deep. The other slot strategies just wear out the tool tip and the tool likes to deflect or break. The drilling cycle puts the pressure on the tool in the Z direction eliminating most of the tool deflection. I learned this trick on a bridgeport mill a long time ago before CNC machines were invented.

A way to implement - select slot strategy, click check box for roughout slot with drill cycle. Select centerline of slot (I know not slot shape) this selection point, is also the start point. Enter numbers of points, system displays the point to point distance for review. Upon regen the system implements the drilling cycle with system generated points. There could be some logic within the CAM system. So that if the user changes the step over value for the point to point distance, that the system would regenerate the drill cycle points.

The HSMWorks slot strategies are for roughing out slots. This Idea just adds one more option to the others. An option that I have to do manually with the current release of HSMWorks. Robust and intuitive are the HSMWorks founders idea of a modern CAM system. I think this idea hits that point.

[al.whatmough]

@Greg_Haisley  I believe this is the same request as Plunge roughing is it not?

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-ideas/add-strategy-plunge-roughing-in-hsm-express/idi-p/6222842

[Greg_Haisley]

@al.whatmough The plunge roughing strategy is for 3D models. Typically using insertable style end mills.

My idea is for slots only.  Particularly small slots with small tools.

[al.whatmough]

@Greg_Haisley  Ah, I like it.  So yours is a simple intermediate step to have an option in the slot toolpath for simple linear pattern of drilling cycles to rough our slots.

[Greg_Haisley]

A picture tells the story. Those circles are .094 in diameter. The material is 303SS. 

[lenny_1962]

Plunge roughing in 3D should do this easily with a boundary, but to automate it  would be nice.

have you used the pattern function to do this alot quicker then segmenting the line in SW?

[kb9ydn]

I like the idea but it seems like there should just be a generalized 2D plunge roughing operation for pockets, including slots.  For slots you can already drill a line of holes (as described above) fairly easily, so I don't feel this idea really gains us much, except maybe a bit more automation. 

(Admittedly I don't see the point of the slot operation either, since you can pretty much do the same thing with 2D contour)

C|

[narzinskin]

@kb9ydn I agree.  this should just be a plunge milling operation on its own, and slots would be one way to use it.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIOeR5hJWfc

[keith.clausen]

IMHO plunge roughing is a worthwhile but would be better off being implemented as a 3D operation as opposed to 2D. In either case the implementaion is key and yes easier said than done at least to do it properly. I seen plunge roughing implemented in other CAM and it is very poorly implemented and ths very limited to the geometery it can effectively be applied to.

I think in the case of the original screen shot I would just create a number of drill points and move on as the geometry is not that complicated and is easily achieveable with little effort.

In my experience poor/limited implementations lead to limited area of application....the cake must be fully baked for it to be edible.   

[miechh]

You're completely right, keith.clausen. It should be implemented correctly. There are some articles on the internet about Plunge Roughing which should be read by lots of machinists/programmers. This is an interesting one: http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/plunge-roughing-right-now.

But i.m.o. it shouldn't be made more complicated than necessary, Autodesk HSM is a competitive CAM solution, and it shouldn't be as expensive as MasterCAM or Edgecam. Think about this: the 'almost free'-program GibbsCam has plunging strategy.... See this article: https://www.gibbscam.com/data/File/pdf/Plunge%20Roughing%20Overcoming%20Programming%20Challenges.pdf

So Autodesk shouldn't stay behind...

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

"But i.m.o. it shouldn't be made more complicated than necessary, Autodesk HSM is a competitive CAM solution, and it shouldn't be as expensive as MasterCAM or Edgecam. Think about this: the 'almost free'-program GibbsCam has plunging strategy.... See this article: https://www.gibbscam.com/data/File/pdf/Plunge%20Roughing%20Overcoming%20Programming%20Challenges.pdf

So Autodesk shouldn't stay behind..."

I assume you are joking about Gibbscam being almost free right?

[miechh]

Oops. My mistake, I'm sorry..... I mixed-up GibbsCam with another CAM solution....

[Laurens-3DTechDraw]

@miechh

No problem. It's a fairly common operation now so your point of not staying behind is still valid. 😉

[Anonymous]

I am quoting a job that requires milling a very narrow and deep slot. This feature would take an excessive amount of machining time via a ramping 2D Contour or Slot cut as it would require really slowing down the feed rate as I'm having to use a small diameter long end mill. I found a high speed cutter (SECO Jabro (r) HFM JHF980) that would allow plunge milling this type of feature getting better material removal rates (see video near the end at the following link). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAkumNKnilQ

Right now I'm planning to use a drilling cycle to generate the necessary tool paths on this feature, I would love to see Autodesk include a plunge milling routing added to HSMworks/Fusion 360 for this type of application.