Wrap a pattern on a complex surface
Hi Günther,
Thanks for your answer...
I thought I put a print screen!
Here is the file and the print screen of the pattern I want all around.
I would like this pattern to be all around my "vase" and also
with the lines of that pattern giving holes and thickness around my "vase" (black is thickness and white area holes).
Is that possible?
In theory that can be done with sheet metal tools. However, there are two main obstacles.
1. Due to the large difference in diameter, you'll have to deal with very strong stretching of the pattern. You can't unwrap the hull of the vase into a rectangle without UV stretching.
2. In my tests, even a simpler pattern with small circles will create so much geometry that you'll wait for a long, long time for it to complete. The number of circles in of 12 slivers (patterned as components!!!) is 3x13. If I extend the pattern all the way to the top (3x 43), the re-fold operation does not complete even after 20 minutes on my 2017 high spec MacBook pro.
I would usually not ever attach an image (I embed them) but the forum software is being very uncooperative today.
You WILL have some stretching, but it does not necessarily have to be as strong as I show in the image. That does not have anything to do with the software, that is simply mathematics. You cannot unwrap that vase into a rectangular sheet without having some stretching, that is mathematically impossible!
What you'll have to decide how it will stretch. Currently, it only stretches circumferentially, but theoretically, it is possible that the pattern simply gets larger and somewhat maintains its aspect ratio while "traveling" toward the larger diameter. I wouldn't currently know how to do this in Fusion 360 unless I make a sketch with pre-stretched geometry.
This would take some experimentation.
That experimentation is going to be very time consuming the more pattern instances you use. Fusion 360 is simply too slow in processing and re-folding such a large amount of geometry to allow quick iteration.
Why would you need a .step file ?
I work on a Mac and that's not a problem. If you are looking for other free or inexpensive software that can create CAD geometry (BRep, NURBS) I currently don't have a recommendation for you. I personally use other CAD software but it definitely isn't free, or inexpensive (I paid $1800 for a perpetual license when a discount of 40% was on the table). That CAD software runs on Windows only (I use Bootcamp & Win10).
I will keep experimenting with this.
Modeling this I would probably prefer Blender as it can handle massive amounts of (mesh) geometry and will allow fast iteration. But that won't return a .step file.
Just so this is clear, the model shown in the attached images was NOT created in Fuoisnn 360, only the render was done in Fusion 360.
I did this in ZW3D but I believe with a huge amount of patience this can be done in Fusion 360. I might try over the weekend.
Having said this, I am convinced that you will not be able to create this as a single solid body in Fusion 360. I tried this in ZW3D and then exported a .stp file, which is 1GB (ONE GIGABYTE) in size.
It has 40 segments that were patterned as components, which cut the file size down to 26MB.
This is by no means a beginner project and was also not trivial to do in ZW3D.
I would under normal circumstance never attach an image but for the
There is no easy button! A cube is easy, what you are trying to do is not! It is in fact pretty ambitious! That would be my first bit of advice.
My second bit of advice is that for projects like this, resourcefulness is the key to success in projects like this.
For example, you could prototype this in Blender with real-time feedback (yes, it is that fast) to determine the number of vertical and circumferential instances (they really are copies, not instances) you need before using Fusion 360.
You don't need any other software at the moment. This can be done in Fusion 360. The CAD software I used to model the object in the previous images just does this between 15-20 times faster which allows relatively fast iteration, but even there, this isn't trivial.
Also, if you hadn't noticed, Dynamo is dead slow!
The trick here is not the patterning, that's the easy part. The trick is how to deform (UV wrap) the patterned objects so they conform to the vase 😉
Machining this will require at least a 4 - axis setup.
@Anonymous wrote:
Would you share whith me your Fusion file?
I will, once I am done 😉
So at this point, I'll have to stop. I was able to create the pattern, but the second re-fold operation responded with an error after more than 20 minutes of running. In general, this already is a convoluted non-intuitive workflow and not fully parametric.
I would believe that Dynamo has a function, that also allows to UV map geometry from a source to a target surface (that's how this works in ZW3D) but then the question is how to get that large amount of geometry into Fusion 360.
@Anonymous wrote:
In which program were you able to create it?
I've developed an interest in Computer Graphics and Rendering well over 30 years ago and have worked with 3D CAD professionally for over 20 (started with Solid Works 1998). I also spend a good bit of time modeling with Blender ( 18 years).
This question often comes up "what software have you created this with". My answer to that would be: The one that runs between my ears 😉 That's a little bit tongue in cheek, but not entirely.
The CAD model was created in ZW3D. The "standard" license tier for a license is $3000. I was able to obtain it for $1800 during the event of a year-end sale.
I have now also created this in Blender (see screenshot below), which is free and open-source software.
This particular pattern seems to b a challenge for Fusion 360 but other patterns, as I've shown already can be done in Fusion 360.
In none of those software packages is this trivial and the knowledge of what software I was able to create this in is only going to help you so much if you have not done any other CAD or 3D modeling. That's where the software comes into play the runs between my ears 😉
This is not to discourage you but to encourage you to take the first steps and those can be done in Fusion 360. I have yet to see a model from you so I can not really assess where you are with your skills ATM.
This thread shows the workflow I basically use for these models. Now go and investigate and see how the info there relates to this problem...
I am posting just to say that I am definitely interested in continuing this.
You asked why you would need a 4, or 5-axis machine to machine this.
My apologies for the crudity of he sketch 😉
You need to be able to rotate the vase around its center axis so each point on the surface can be reached.
Then you need linear movement in the X and Z-Axis to be able to touch each point on the profile and then you need to be able to pivot the tool so it can follow the contour/profile of the vase and stay perpendicular to it (or a have a pre-defined but continuous approach angle).
That makes 4-axis. However, such a setup is rather rare so you'll end up with a 5th axis because a given machine has it.
I am tagging @seth.madore and @HughesTooling to comment on this and correct and add where necessary. Both ar very familiar with the CAM abilities of Fusion 360
My guess would be that to machine such an intricate pattern even into a soft material like wood would take many, many hours.
Thanks @TrippyLighting for tagging me. Yes, for sure, a 5 axis machine is a must, especially if the goal is to end up with the beautiful model that Peter created. Several hours, I think that's being conservative. Something of this intracacy, I'd expect to see well over a dozen hours, of course depending on size. If this is 200mm tall, then it would likely be in the several hour range.
4 axis is going to limit you to the quality of the finished part, no doubt about it, as it can only reach a point normal to the Z axis, with the "A" axis rotating about the X or Y axis. If there are any undercuts or overhangs in the part, you'll either have to live with them or move to a 5 axis. Good lord, I can only image the g-code file size......
Seth Madore
Customer Advocacy Manager - Manufacturing