F360 performance on M1X Mac

[travisbrown]

Curious why F360 runs more smoothly on my 2012 2.7 Quadcore MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM than my brand new virgin install 2021 MacBook Pro M1 Max with 64GB RAM. It's just....laggy. 

[Phil.E]

I'm curious if you are experiencing a difference because of graphics.

[travisbrown]

Hi Phil. 

You mean difference in graphic chipsets? Or graphic settings? I have both graphic modes set to the same in F360. The newer mack obviously having far superior GPU capabilities.

[Phil.E]

• Same monitor(s)? Resolution?
• What is the GPU in each machine?
• Same design? Have you opened the same designs on both machines to compare?

[travisbrown]

Ah. 

Same monitor (2500x1600). 

GPU:  NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 512MB  vs. M1 Max 32 core native graphics. 

Same files. Doesn't seem to be file specific. Get the same thing when starting a new design.

On the 2012 machine there were specific F360 processes that were understandably slow. Gut generally sketching and modelling was responsive enough navigating around, selecting, sketching. F360 on the new machine is just generally laggy enough to be annoying doing those same types of things - as if you are typing in a word processor and the letters appears quarter-second after you hit the key. Just sort of....kills the groove. 

[travisbrown]

Sorry. The 2012 is a GT 650M with 1GB

[Phil.E]

Okay, well this sounds more like a problem on your M1 than with Fusion. I mean, if Fusion is running well on different hardware, with the same designs, what else could it be? Rosetta 2 is playing intermediary between Fusion and your machine regardless.

Have you tried disconnecting the monitor? Or looking at the graphics diagnostic in Help? Or turning off graphics effects? I am just listing basic hardware trouble shooting tips. If you could copy and paste the graphics diagnostic info from the M1 I'd like to see it.

It may well be that there's an issue with Fusion here, but until I hear the same complaint from more than one user, it's hard for me to make that claim. I'm glad to help with whatever it is, and if we can improve Fusion for you, all the better. Thanks again.

[travisbrown]

Well, yes. I suspect it's something about F360 running on an M1X. I was asking because it was unclear if it is a general Silicon issue, or something else.  Though I don't get similar latency in any other GPU-intensive applications, e.g. Creative Cloud, so not sure if it's just *this* Mac. 

Same result when using the laptop's built-in display. Doesn't seem to be related to external display.  Diagnostics from both machines below. 

F360 does some other funny things on this new Mac. E.g. I notice sometimes that the floating F360 palettes will display on top of other applications' windows when F360 is in the background. I was assuming it's all just Rosetta weirdness. 

[Phil.E]

In the graphics diagnostic, there is a tick box to limit graphics effects. Does that help?

The floating elements are from a bug with spaces. Basically if you move Fusion to alternate desktops, or open it with alternate desktops, the elements get separated. This post (message 30) has a workaround.

[kim.jansonT4WYD]

Is there some clarity to this, please. On Macbook pro M1 very poor performance now when rotating the model expecially when getting close to details, even when the visible parts are simple. It used to be much better on this machine. Now it is not really usable but have to use it anyway.

It is on 4k display as it was also previously.

[Phil.E]

I'm happy to test one of your designs on m1 mac, if you can provide a link or file. 

[jm.10]

I can also confirm F360 has severe performance problems on an M1 Max.

This isn't something you as a customer can solve. M1 hardware is fully capable of running this kind of software with no issues; Autodesk has simply failed to do any kind of optimization to properly support the platform, all while marketing it as "compatible". If you compare the performance of other similar classes of applications you'll immediately find Fusion is the only one that runs this badly.

In other words, don't waste your time. The problem is with Autodesk. It will be solved when they properly optimize the software for the platforms they claim to support.

[kim.jansonT4WYD]

The files I can not provide, but it is with several designs that were at some point ok. Now after latest update it has been crashing today several times. it feels like screen update related. I use 3D connexion mouse and rotate and move the model a lot. when geting closer to details it studders a lot, like updates on couple of times per second and not evenly, this usually hapens when going close to object. These are not that complex objects and this is with 16g memory.

[Phil.E]

Thanks for letting me know you're talking about 3Dconnexion issues.

Just asking for clarity to the group: Is this true for anyone else on this thread?

Here's what will help:

• Provide crash report numbers (crashes are mentioned here)
• Describe the workflows in detail (thanks for the information about mouse hardware/workflow, that's the kind of detail needed to reproduce the issues)
• Any information that helps reproduce the issue, such as design data, or videos, etc.

[kim.jansonT4WYD]

Note, this slow screen update does not hapen all the time, but it happens a lot. When it stutters it can also suddenly start updating ok.

[travisbrown]

I don’t use a 3DConnexion mouse and get the same inconsistent behaviour. It’s just generalized poor performance. 

[Phil.E]

Thanks for the confirmation. If you can add anything more specific I appreciate your time to do so.

Here's what will help:

• Provide crash report numbers (crashes are mentioned here)
• Describe the workflows in detail (thanks for the information about mouse hardware/workflow, that's the kind of detail needed to reproduce the issues)
• Any information that helps reproduce the issue, such as design data, or videos, etc.

[jm.10]

I've seen crashes happen when doing just about anything and everything:

- Saving

- Opening a file

- Exporting

- Starting a sketch

- Finishing a sketch

- Almost any operation of any kind

- Literally just looking at the screen while Fusion is open

- Attempting to switch to back to Fusion after another application has been active

I've submitted crash reports for all of them along with descriptions in the crash reporter. On that note, I've also had the Fusion crash reporter itself crash while trying submit a crash report. Multiple times. 🤣

I can also confirm (as a 3Dconnexion user) that the performance and overall bugginess of Fusion is not noticeably different on a fresh install without the 3D mouse or its drivers. One reason the stuttering is so obvious with the 3D mouse is because of its ability to rotate very smoothly. It's less obvious with other methods of rotation (even trying to rotate smoothly with a normal mouse there will be some variation normally, which hides some of the lags and stutters).

This does also remind me of another problem with Fusion on the Mac - the way the "view cube" is implemented is completely broken. If you try to drag the mouse over the cube from left to right, you can rotate just a few degrees before the mouse goes off the edge of the window and Fusion stops rotating the object. That's a consequence of a bad UI that's been poorly ported without proper testing.

And another thing I recently saw mentioned again and I think it's worth adding it here - the "Browser" view (i.e. the main tree) bugs out all the time on the Mac version. It appears on the wrong screen or space constantly and sometimes the only way to fix it is to completely relaunch Fusion. Switching spaces with Fusion active is a reliable way to trigger this bug, which has existed in Fusion for as far as I can remember.

And finally, Fusion's main window on the Mac completely breaks window managers (tilers like Amethyst for example). I can't begin to imagine what Fusion is doing to break something this fundamental but it's the only application I'm aware of that does this.

So that's a start. Again, as I've mentioned before Fusion's Mac version is barely functional and it should probably not be advertised as stable at this point (and it should definitely not be sold to actual customers in this state). Call it an alpha or a prerelease or a preview or something...

[kim.jansonT4WYD]

Good report of the current state on Apple silicon, and it seems to be going to worse direction by every forced update.

I am long time user, but really starting to feel forced to find an other solution.