When will custom form mills be supported?

[CGPM]

I would just like an update/ your opinion on when custom form tools will be supported, or at least where things are at today.  I NEED to be able to import one to run a simulation to make sure it will do what I want.  My brain simulator just isn't sure that what I need can be done with one tool.  I have designed it, got 2 quotes, and then froze because I am just not sure it will work and would hate to spend $600 to find out it doesn't.  Currently doing 4 passes with 2 tools and want to do 1 pass with 1 tool so really motivated to get that custom form tool for this open ended production job.

[daniel_lyall]

If you know someone who has Inventor HSM you can get them to setup the tool, then you can import it into fusion. Someone should do this they could make money out of it.

[LibertyMachine]

I'm curious if the Simulation will do it's job though, as it's now a form mill. Of course, you could compare against the modeled features and inspect visually for form and fit.

If you have a sketch you could send me, I could try it in Inventor HSM and send it back to you

On another note; I think we are long overdue for an update on what's going on with the Tool Library and everything that entails, wouldn't you agree @al.whatmough I know it's been mentioned on more than one occasion that a blog update may be in order. Perhaps after the hectic AU is over we could possibly see some comments and direction?

[CGPM]

I would be thrilled to send you anything you want but need to know exactly what and how you want it?  The only thing I don't want to share publicly is the clamp design of the fixture but would be happy to send you the whole Fusion project, or invite you to it, if that would work, just don't share it.  Or I can just send the tool and part.  It isn't that complicated but I am not sure how the top and bottom chamfers will work out when I chamfer the corners of the bars.

[LibertyMachine]

Understood. PM sent

[LibertyMachine]

Well, I'm not seeing this working. I made a for tool in InventorHSM and exported the library. While I was able to import the library into Fusion, the tool isn't displayed in the Fusion Tool Library. Because it's a Form Tool and there are no filters for that, it's simply not displayed. At least that's my theory. If anyone could prove me wrong I'd be more than happy to see it actually work

[Steinwerks]

I've made it work in the past via HSMWorks. I'm play with it a little tonight. My previous form tool should still be in my cloud library too so I'll look for it.

[daniel_lyall]

@LibertyMachine thats where I saw it HSM not Inventor my bad 

[Steinwerks]

Well it seems to be very oddly official: Fusion won't support Inventor HSM form tools:

Edit: I thought I had an older HSMWorks form tool in my library but it appears I do not. I'll play with it tomorrow over lunch though and see if it still translates.

[bensbenz]

I use some custom form tools on my machine and I use fusion. Since I cant see what it looks like in sim, I created the tool as a model, used the bottom of the tool as a reference and created a sketch to use in CAM for how I wanted the tool to work. In the tool library I created a tool with the general shape but with the exact OD of what the bottom of the real tool is  (matches the model I made). I setup a contour using my sketch as the selection, so I know exactly where the tool is going to go and how it interacts with my part. I have done this with 2 different tools and it has worked perfect each time. So while your not getting an actual simulation it can still be done and you have a pretty good idea how its going to work.

[RandyKopf]

@bensbenz

That is a smart and effective work around thank you!

I've done this type of thing over many years and my CAM systems using a Cross Section of the part VS  a Sketch of a Tool to precisely calculate areas I want added control. It's like a graphical form of calculus for smart machinists. At one time I was actually featured in a Tooling and Production article that showed how to exploit CAD to enhance CAM.

[Steinwerks]

The "program to the tool tip" has been the workaround for over two years now. This doesn't help with simulation, or rest machining, and asking users to constantly work around limitations not found in even software like BobCAD-CAM is pretty sad IMO.

What I would like to see is a sketch dialogue in a Form Tool creation menu. Sketch it out right in the Tool Library, select or create a control point, select a revolve line, and done.

Or just make it like many other packages do and import a model. This should be easy-peasy for something as internally connected as Fusion.

[bensbenz]

I agree 100% but if you need to get the part done now its just a way to do it. I wish we had many of the basics that other software's have, but we have basic 5 axis now so there's that !

[bensbenz]

That's sounds neat. I cant imagine doing anything I do without the tools we have available today. I'm new enough to design and machining that CAM without integrated CAD doesn't even compute in my brain LOL.

[RandyKopf]

@Steinwerks

I completely agree with your assertion. I use Mastercam for Solidworks at work and it supports a sketch to be used as a custom tool OR solid model to be used. But even with what I have it is some what limited.

In my older days programming in both Pro/Engineer NC and UGII I could do a SKETCH FORM TOOLS ON THE FLY. But wait there was more... Way more...

AND 

More importantly the sketch allowed for MULTIPLE TOOL CONTROL POINTS. Each would influence the tool path calculation. In one tool sketch you could have the following set. 

1) Standard Control point on tool axis C/L and TIP.

2) Control Point on a point on side of tool at contact of geometry. (correlates to an edge on a thread model OR Multi Tool Chamfer Point)

3) Shifted points to simplify setup. This allows setting off the tool tip but the math is shifted to some contact point.

4) As many other control points to add if you need them...

EDIT: A good example would be today's multi function tools, see added tool graphic

In each of these cases the tool path is calculated and output differently to allow driving off existing math OR to simplify setups. 

AND

Most importantly each point type was available for each new operation within the same setup. And each would allow the tool to act independent of an prior existing operation. Again calculating unique to that operation based on the Form Tool Control point selected.

AND

Each one could have a unique Tool Offset number assigned to match further refinement on the Control.

AND

All of that was in conjunction with the various type compensation methods like computer, wear etc...

And this is why I made the prior assertion in reply to @bensbenz that I can still do crazy stuff just by doing sketch work.

[CGPM]

Thanks for all of your interest and to Seth and Steinwerks for trying to do it.  Programing the path is dirt easy, I could hand code it if I needed.  Here is a photo of the tool to better describe the issue.  I cut the end of 1/4" x 1" bars with this profile which includes the small chamfers top and bottom and .03" chamfers on the corners of the bars.  I would really like to know the .02" top and bottom chamfers will do their cuts when the tool does the .03" chamfers on the corners.

[Steinwerks]

I can confirm that importing form tools from HSMWorks no longer works either. Bollocks.

[daniel_lyall]

They seem to do that quite often something from inventor HSM or HSM will work with fusion then they kill it. 

[CGPM]

Is this so far off the radar that nobody from Autodesk is going to chime in?

Bump, bump.