Reorder to minimize tool changes was working; Now it's not!

[wellisonS6RTG]

Up to now the "Reorder to minimize tool changes" function has worked flawlessly for multiple setups with different WCS.  However today it's not working as expected.  Not sure what has changed but even older CAM files that were posted earlier this week using the same post processor won't reorder operations now.  I'm baffled.  I've attached the model file and the post I'm using.  I believe I must be overlooking something simple unless something in Fusion has changed recently?

wellison

[NickErmis]

Thanks for the reply, but that is disappointing about the fear of an individual crashing the machine. 

I dont understand Autodesk liability in that situation.  Any wrong programmed parameter has the risk of crashing a machine, I.E rapiding into stock of the fixture, running the spindle in the wrong direction, programming the incorrect WCS to name a few.

Furthermore, I believe that there is more risk in leaving the awkward tool path arrangement and letting the user try and modify the code so that the part runs optimally.   A lot of us are programming production parts with this software and cannot let the machines run Laissez-faire

[thomas.chr]

I don't know how the legal aspects are in such a situation. I am aware there are many situation where a user could get himself into bad situations. My concern is mainly as a developer where I would feel a responsibility to, as far as possible/reasonable, protect the user from making unfortunate choices. But it is of course always a trade-off between giving the user direct control and creating a product that protects the user.

[engineguy]

@thomas.chr 

I am with you 100%, we do need a certain amount of protection from ourselves that`s for sure !!!

Even if lots of folks did say they are OK, we know what we are doing so not a problem there will be some that will start screaming when something goes wrong that wasn`t "protected" to a degree by Autodesk that it is Autodesk responsibility. Something like "Why does Fusion allow me to mess up" springs to mind 🙂 🙂

You only have to look at a lot of Posts where someone is having an absolute "rant" and is politely shown how to resolve their issue which is usually of their own makeing !!!

Keep up the good work !!!!

[NickErmis]

@thomas.chr 

Thanks for the feedback, it is appreciated. 

Can I summarize what I read from your post?  Essentially, Autodesk is aware that the reorder to "Minimize Tool changes"  is not optimal, however they are not going to give users the ability to drag and drop, or rearrange how they see fit in the NC Program dialog window to protect the users from crashing the machine.  Also, that the long term fix of optimizing the algorithm is on the radar, but no effort is being put into it at this time.

Just from my perspective and my personal needs from Fusion, this is by far the biggest flaw in the software.  I really love everything else about it, but this is a huge hassle when I am programming, and a bigger hassle when I am training someone on using the software.  Here is a screen shot of a part I am currently working on where I had to make a dummy tool path just to get the tools ordered properly. I can drag and drop any tool path right here that would pose the same risk of crashing a machine as if I could do it in the NC program window.

[thomas.chr]

Hi @NickErmis,

Yes that is a quite good summarization of the points I have been making. One addition though, is that implementing the feature to allow dragging operations around (even without error-checking) is not necessarily a simple thing, so a more advanced reordering algorithm would probably be the way to go.

It is no question that input from users, such as you, is important in deciding where to put out efforts. If you feel so strongly about this issue, likely many other users feel like you and this will definitely be taken into account by the people planning which features to work on.

I hope you will find a good way go deal with this issue until it is improved upon.

Ps. Thanks for the screen shot that very well illustrates your workaround.

[jindustries.cnc]

I too am having the same problem. I have tried the few things mentioned, checked that my tools are all from the same library, and tries using NC program to no avail.

here is the screen shot where you can see the operations and the minimal re ordering, aka only tool 1. tool 3 is the very next tool in both programs but it decides to finish G54 completely then back to tool 3 for G55.

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated, and yes i read all 5 pages.

[engineguy]

@jindustries.cnc 

Without your Fusion file to double check but just looking at your screenshot I can see that you do have two different Tool #3, one is a 1/2in and the other is a 1/2in "corn cob rougher" two distinct different tools so from what I can see is they are correct.

As above I cannot be 100% without seeing your file and what operations are involved more easily but of course if the Operations in Setup #2 are not completed then the Chamfers will not all be done together.

[jindustries.cnc]

Found two identical tools in the library, that was the culprit, thanks for the forum help.

[Anonymous]

Hi Everyone,

Does someone get a solution from Autodesk about this case ?

Many thanks to all,

[engineguy]

@Anonymous 

It is working correctly, no further action required.

If you have a problem with a specific file can you please upload it for inspection.

[NickErmis]

Here is one...  Still broken.

[Anonymous]

Here is also one.

Kindly awaiting on your solution.

[engineguy]

@NickErmis 

That one is easy, it is because you are using the Spot Drill as a Countersink to Chamfer the two holes then the second small er hole has to be drilled before the Spot Drill can do the Chamfer.

If you had been using the Spot Drill to spot the start of the two drilling operations then it works, what you have is a Drilling operation followed by a chamfering operation and then another Drilling operation followed by a chamfering operation with the Spot Drill.

If Fusion had grouped the Spot Drill operations together then you would have had the Spot Drill plunging into the stock before the drill operation instead of into a hole, that might work depending on your tooling and the material but definitely not recommended !!! 🙂 🙂

[Anonymous]

Many thanks for your answer !

For tool5, you're right. But how is it for tool 86 ?

[NickErmis]

It was just a quick example, I understand why it did what it did.

But the issue lies in the fact that the last operation we typically will do is deburr the part.  I Would like to be able to put that at the end of all operations, not at the end of each WCS.   

[engineguy]

@Anonymous 

You appear to have two T#86 tools, Fusion will see these as two different tools so will not group them together.

[engineguy]

@NickErmis 

That should not be a problem, however it does require all other operations to have been completed first and it must be the same tool, selected once from your tool library for the first deburr and then selected from within the Document for all other deburr operations.

[Anonymous]

You're right. So i moved the one one solo operation with the three others.

Still not reorganize.

Please see attached file 🙂

[engineguy]

@Anonymous 

Swap your Setups and it should work. Put Workoffset2 first.

[Anonymous]

@engineguy 

You are right !! so good, a great thanks for your help ! amazing 🙂

Have a great day,