Reorder to minimize tool changes was working; Now it's not!

[wellisonS6RTG]

Up to now the "Reorder to minimize tool changes" function has worked flawlessly for multiple setups with different WCS.  However today it's not working as expected.  Not sure what has changed but even older CAM files that were posted earlier this week using the same post processor won't reorder operations now.  I'm baffled.  I've attached the model file and the post I'm using.  I believe I must be overlooking something simple unless something in Fusion has changed recently?

wellison

[Anonymous]

This fixed my issue.

Thank you

[beanerspeed]

This no longer works. reorders the first couple of tools then it's all over the place.

[thomas.chr]

Please elaborate - preferably with an example. Does the description made in post 37 by any chance match your issue?

BR,

Thomas 

[Anonymous]

@beanerspeed 

Don`t just rubbish it, please upload a file that is giving you a problem and it will be looked at for you!!

Go to

File > Export > Select f3d Format > Save to a location on your computer > Then attach it to your next post.

Just for your information, it works fine here !!

[pgamachineco]

I was having this issue and found a solution. I went to my post process page on the workpiece setup, Then changed the operation order from preserve order to order by tool. This worked and all my operations were ordered by tool for all my fixture offsets.

[beanerspeed]

@thomas.chr,

Thank you for your reply, I have been in contact with Autodesk support on this and they agree that the "algorithm" is not behaving as it should.

Response from Autodesk-

"I appreciate your effort to share the project along with the depict snapshot. As you mentioned, I have tested at my end and reproduced the same problem as you encountered. The 2D Contour60 toolpath is not reordered with the 2D Adaptive (4) toolpath.

I inform you that one of my colleagues has already been reported to the development and it has been fixed by our developers and the task number is CAM-24896. I expect it to be available in an upcoming release. So please keep eye on Fusion 360 update. In the meantime, please manage by manual reordering fo toolpaths. "

I have done the March update and nothing has changed.

Maybe somebody can light a fire under someone's ... and get this released ASAP!

[NickErmis]

@beanerspeed  Can you share the .f3d file by chance?  I have experienced the same issue and have figured out a couple work arounds.  

[Anonymous]

@beanerspeed 

The issue is that you have 2 tools with the same number but one in the Adaptive toolpath and the other in the Contour toolpath.

It is the #39 1/2in Alu-Power tool, you have selected this tool twice from the Tool Library, if you do this then Fusion "sees" the tool as two different tools, once you have brought a tool into your Document from the tool library then if you want that same tool again in a different operation as you have then you MUST select the tool from within your Document, not select again from the Tool Library.

Do as above and all will be well, I deleted the 1/2in tool from the Contour 60 and reselected it from within the Document and it now places both the Adaptive and Contour toolpaths together in the NC List, as in the image below.

In the image above you can clearly see that the tool in the Blue rectangle looks to be the same as the one in the Green rectangle, however Fusion sees them as two different tools as explained above.

In the image below you can see that now the #39 1/2in tool now has the Adaptive and the Contour toolpaths grouped together.

All the above has been gone over numerous times by some very, very clever folks on here, way better that both you and I added together I suspect, this is what they say and it is the CORRECT WAY to use the software.

So with the greatest of respect and no offence intended please, please don`t just "fire off" a salvo at the software, it does work fine, you just have to get used to the correct workflow needed to achieve your objective, it will come with time!

You will always get the help you need with simple requests!!

@NickErmis 

No "workaround" required, if used correctly it works correctly.

[Anonymous]

@beanerspeed 

Apologies, I forgot to add this image as well, it shows that after I changed the selection of the tool for the Contour 60 that the tool #39 1/2in Alu-Power is used in 3 different operations and that they are all grouped together in your NC Program as in the image in my previous Post.

[cjelley91]

Finally, they admit this is a legitimate problem. By reordering tools
manually do they mean we should go into the posted program and put them in
order the way the program should run or am I missing something?

[NickErmis]

@Anonymous  there actually circumstances that require work arounds. For example multiple setups that each require unique tools but share 1 common tool, like a chamfer mill that deburrs all profiles as a finishing operation.  The algorithm recognizes that there are operations that need to be preformed before the chamfer tool comes in so it requires a tool change for each wcs instead of lumping them all together at the end of the program.  That's where the tedious task of creating empty tool paths for each tool in each wcs to arrange the tools in the desired order comes in to play as a work around.

[Anonymous]

@cjelley91 

Did you read my posts above??

No "workaround", no manually re-ordering operations or tools just select the tool properly from within the Document.

The tool list within the Ducument is in effect what some other softwares call a "crib" or a "tool store", normally using a differnent software I would load a "crib" from the main tool library and then use tool from there as I created operations.

Although Fusion doesn`t actually appear to have a separate "crib" or "store" it does create one within the Document.

I make a list of the tools I will use for the job based on what I have in the shop for starters and maybe "order in" anything I don`t have all based on the type of operations I am going to do, I also have multiple "presets" done for a given tool that are correct for the material, the type of operation etc, etc, etc.

Doing everything "on the fly" is not good engineering practice, "set your stall" out before you start drawing the first line or creating the first model, in other words "have a plan" !!

Attached file of an empty Document but with a few tools already within the Document, when I want a tool I would just go to the Document, no need to go to the main Tool Library unless you need to make a change!!

[Aly-Tek]

This is still a problem. Is there a fix coming soon??????

[engineguy]

@Aly-Tek 

No "fix" needed, it works, there seems to be a relatively small number of people who are struggling with it, if it didn`t work there would be hundreds or even thousands of complaints, there are many thousands of users of Fusion 360, the majority of whom seem to be fine with it ???

If you can upload a file that you have issues with then maybe someone will be able to help out for you.

[beanerspeed]

Hate to burst your bubble, but its is broken and has been for months now.
More than likely you haven't seen that many complaints is due to the fact
that autodesk was losing to much money for there investors and had to start
charging for there beta software they call fusion 360 causing alot of users
to turn to alternative software. So with a large number of beta testers
removed from the loop that would of have been rising hell here we are suck
with the few people that where actually stupid enough to pay for this
garbage. Making MasterCAM look more and more appealing everyday. But what
do I know, I somewhat of a newbie at cad thing only been using it since the
days of dos.

[engineguy]

@beanerspeed 

I am a bit baffled by your Post, did you not see how @Anonymous  fixed the file that you uploaded just by selecting the tools from the Document and not going to the Tool Library every time and that way creating new Tools with the same numbers etc

That was your file, not a made up one to make it look like it works, no tricks, just a different workflow, again, your file and it works !!

Can you please upload another problem file that you would like looked at by someone ??

P.S. I was using "Peg Boards" before DOS 🙂

[Aly-Tek]

Hi Seth,

there seems to still be a big problem with this. I have the same issue and also another gentleman I've seem on facebook along with numerous others posting in here. Can we get the tech guys/gals to have a look please. I have created another post as this one said it was fixed but from what I see and am experiencing it is not fixed.

Cheers,

Stephen

[thomas.chr]

Hi Aly-Tek

I will be happy to take a look at the issue if you can post/send me a simple model file showing the issue.

BR,
Thomas

[NickErmis]

Attached is the most basic of sample I just whipped up this morning.  I understand the logic, but its frustrating that I have to do a work around to make it work properly, i.e. in the example make an empty tool path the for 1/4" drill in WCS 1.  See screen shots.  

It seems like there should be a way to manually move tool paths around in the Operations tab in NC Program.

[thomas.chr]

Hi NickErmis,

It is true, as you describe, that insertion of a 'dummy' operation in this case using a 1/4" drill can help the algorithm achieve a more optimal solution. This is described in more depth in post 37 point 2 further up in this thread.

Moving toolpaths around in the NC Program could be a way to give the user more control in situations like this. A downside of this approach, however, is that one could easily risk ordering operations in a way that violates the setup order and potentially crashing the user's machine. To protect against such situations thorough checking of the ordering would need to be done. Another solution would be to improve the reordering algorithm so that it could look further into the list of operations in the next setup in order to discover potential optimizations.
The latter is definitely on the list of 'would like to dos' but is not scheduled for near term development.