NEW Tool Library

[veso58S5W]

😫that's first impression.
What was the reason to change?
Why mess up good things?
How you organize tools? If I want list to be by #. Or by diameters?
Renumber Tool, now I must go through several operations.

[gtprototype]

I though I'd give the New Tool Library a try.  I don't know how anyone can use it more than about ten minutes without giving up in frustration! 

At first glance everything is grayed out --gray is the new font color?  What craziness is going on: the gray font and smaller text makes it harder to see and the distinctive tabs are now disguised to remove clutter?  If the goal is to make it look cleaner why not change the font to white on a white background --you can't get any cleaner than all white?  

What's with the clever hidden dimensions on the tool geometry tab?  Have you forgotten that you're dealing with people who are very comfortable reading drawings?  When you divorce the dimensions from the drawing you just create frustration and confusion; imagine if the drawing you were looking at had letters which referenced a table so every dimension had to be looked up in a table?  Wouldn't that be fun all day long? 

I applaud the goal to add features but to change the GUI just to be different while making it harder to see and use is more than counter productive.  Isn't the goal to make the software intuitive so that a new user can be reasonably productive in the shortest period of time? 

When tabs don't look like tabs who will know to click on them except the people who are intimately familiar with the software?  I had to watch a video to realize there were tabs hidden as words in the design space and of course the logical solution is to repeat that folly with the tool library?

The tool listing is slow and the tools don't sort properly any more.  If, like me, you created a standard tool library to improve efficiency since the bulk of your jobs use many of the same tools and you know your tools by number you won't be able to find them easily now.  

I was going to do a screen cast but after several attempts I realized I couldn't do it and remain calm enough not to offend someone.  The grayed out interface and smaller fonts nearly render the software useless with my eyesight and that really gets me frustrated!

[mikeireland]

I strongly agree with the first two comments in lb1104u2's note.  The font selection is poor.  The lines in the characters are too light and narrow.  I understand that you're trying follow some already developed UI guidelines but even so, the characters are very difficult for me to read.  Also I find the hidden dimensions that only show up when you are inputing the data for that particular tool feature very annoying.  I am perfectly fine with seeing all the dimensions lines all the time as in the current tool library.

I am still playing with the latest release so will probably have some additional comments.

Mike Ireland

[MatthewPBryant]

Hi @gtprototype and @mikeireland, 

Thanks both for your feedback!

At first glance everything is grayed out --gray is the new font color?  What craziness is going on: the gray font and smaller text makes it harder to see and the distinctive tabs are now disguised to remove clutter?  If the goal is to make it look cleaner why not change the font to white on a white background --you can't get any cleaner than all white?  

---

I'm sorry to hear you are struggling to use the new tool library because of the font colour. We have heard that feedback from other users as well and the team have made changes to make the text more readable, which you should see soon. 

What's with the clever hidden dimensions on the tool geometry tab?  Have you forgotten that you're dealing with people who are very comfortable reading drawings?  When you divorce the dimensions from the drawing you just create frustration and confusion; imagine if the drawing you were looking at had letters which referenced a table so every dimension had to be looked up in a table?  Wouldn't that be fun all day long? 

---

We are looking into ways of making the tool dimension diagrams better at the moment. One idea is to make all the dimensions visible at all times and label them with ISO codes. We'd still highlight the dimension you are currently editing in some way, but all dimensions would always appear on the diagram. I'd be interested to hear whether you think that solution would solve the problem?

When tabs don't look like tabs who will know to click on them except the people who are intimately familiar with the software?  I had to watch a video to realize there were tabs hidden as words in the design space and of course the logical solution is to repeat that folly with the tool library?

The team have just completed some work to make the tabs look more like tabs. Again, hopefully you'll see those changes relatively soon.

The tool listing is slow and the tools don't sort properly any more.  If, like me, you created a standard tool library to improve efficiency since the bulk of your jobs use many of the same tools and you know your tools by number you won't be able to find them easily now.  

---

We've done quite a lot of work to try to make the new tool library faster and you should be seeing those changes in the latest release. I'd be interested to know which parts you are still finding slow so that we can look into making those parts faster still if needed?

Could you provide details of what features you would like to see to help you find tools more easily? Worth noting that again, the team have been working on changes to the filter functionality which you should see fairly soon.

@mikeireland - looking forward to hearing any other feedback you have once you've had some more time to use the latest release!

Thanks again for taking the team to give your feedback,

[christopher.cooperVHK2N]

@mikeireland @gtprototype  Firstly, Thank you both for your feedback!

You are correct with your comment about guidelines we need to work to but there is a degree of flexibility there. We have recently completed work to make the text darker so depending on if your running the latest release you may not see that. If you are using the new release and its still causing issues then I will discuss with the UX team this afternoon (Please see attachment SC1 for font colour).

With regards to the 'Geometry' tab I have done some work on a proposal for this and would appreciate some feedback (Ref:CAM-21270).

This is my proposal and I have made a mock up of what potentially it would look like (Please see attachment 'Milling tool Layout').

• ALL the tool dimensions on the tool diagram in the geometry tab should be visible in grey.
• Input boxes should be complemented with relevant ISO code.
• Corresponding ISO code should be used in diagram of tool.
• Selecting geometry input should highlight the relevant dimension in blue.

I think that adding the ISO code would help newer users to identify correctly and quickly where the relevant figures need to go and helps to standardise.

The team have just completed some work to make the tabs look more like tabs. Hopefully you'll see those changes relatively soon.

The tool listing is slow and the tools don't sort properly any more.  If, like me, you created a standard tool library to improve efficiency since the bulk of your jobs use many of the same tools and you know your tools by number you won't be able to find them easily now.  

We've done quite a lot of work to try to make the new tool library faster and you should be seeing those changes in the latest release. I'd be interested to know which parts you are still finding slow so that we can look into making those parts faster still if needed?

Could you provide details of what features you would like to see to help you find tools more easily? Worth noting that again, the team have been working on changes to the filter functionality which you should see fairly soon.

[Anonymous]

Not being able to sort by description is just plain silly.

[nick_p3dcreations]

Is there anywhere I can find a log file to look into why I am getting this error message?

[MatthewPBryant]

Hi @nick_p3dcreations , 

At the moment, we don't store any logs with more details about why the tool couldn't be loaded. We are working on loading the parts of the tool that are valid and letting the user fill in any missing data. Hopefully, once that work is completed you will be able to see what the problem with this tool is and be able to fix it within the tool library. For now, if you want to get the tool working and are comfortable doing so, feel free to send me the tool library in question in a private message and I can look into fixing it for you. 

[vworpi]

Some thoughts on this weeks update.

Speed is a lot better.

Selecting and re-arranging the columns is good, if only it saved my settings...

I still don't like how the description is constructed, can we have it set with an expression so we can custom tailor our own descriptions.

Still can't sort by description.

It's pointless trying the different cutting speed profiles until all the UI issues are sorted, but I am very much looking forward to it.

Can we have sub folders for the libraries? Wasn't someone looking into this last year?

The grey icons, becoming slightly less grey when usable is....crap. Why not bring the style into line with the machine configuration window? Usable icons in there are blue, icons are separated by vertical lines. It's just a much better experience to use.

[MyersMade]

If you would simply just integrate the Multiple Presets for Cutting Data into the old UI, that would be all that needs done.

[gtprototype]

@MyersMade 

I AGREE 100%  Not that long ago we actually had that but it was laden with bugs. 😞

[mcd540]

I just found out about it and tried the new tool library an hour ago.  My initial impression was not positive, like many have said already, the graphics are simply many steps backwards and not acceptable. I know it is in fashion to make web pages and software with as little contrast as possible (e.g.light gray on white). I will say, if you're going to copy a popular fashion, make sure there is a smart reason for that fashion, because often there is not. Another thing, adding functionality is good, but it's value may be questionable if other things are sacrificed for it.

I use software to get things done, and part of getting things done is being able to quickly see and find things in a well organized and visible interface. Instruments in a cockpit don't use light gray needles and graphics on a light background.

I haven't got on to checking out much of the functional qualities of the new tool library yet, because I still alarmed and saddened to see the direction it's going. I'll check it out before making a final judgement (and wait for the final version), but unless the user interface improves drastically I will be moving to another CAD/CAM package. And that's too bad, because Fusion 360 has a lot of very good qualities.

Do the designers use monitors and display settings that might mask these issues? Would it be possible to provide user control over some of the colors and contrast of the UI in Fusion?

[christopher.cooperVHK2N]

@mcd540 Thanks for looking at the New Tool Library preview and taking sometime to critique.

As you pointed out the issues around clarity of text and icons has been previously mentioned and I wanted to ensure you that the team responsible for the library take a proactive approach from users feedback.

We have already completed work on the font colour to make it clearer and also active icons are now blue and this should be available to users soon.

CAM-18969 - New Tool Library Font not legible enough - Complete.

CAM-20368 - Active icons should be blue - Complete.

The platform and redesign of the new library will enable us to add functionality that would be limited by the old one and as you do start to use it please be assured that all constructive feedback will be evaluated and developed as timely as possible.

Thanks

[rhdfmail]

When I recently added a face mill I realized that there is no good place to place information for what inserts it has
We have 2 identical ones, with different inserts . A future improvment would be to add  fields for that 

One option I have at the moment is to define the facemill as a holder and then just make the "insert-part" as a tool and fill in the vendor/product ID in that one, The problem is that I have to duplicate that one for other types tools with the same insert but different number of them

 

[christopher.cooperVHK2N]

@rhdfmail This is a good observation.

It has been suggested by users that we implement a custom tab so that users can add additional fields to the tools and then filter on them and/or select them to output in the post.

I will discussing this with the development team next week and think this would be a great solution to this problem.

I am not sure how other users currently deal with the problem of identifying inserts with tools?

[gtprototype]

@christopher.cooperVHK2N, @MatthewPBryant 

Thank you for the quick response. 

Yes, I am using the current release, it was the release notes that prompted me to look at the tool library preview once again.  Honestly I didn't have a clue that the tool library fonts had gotten darker from the previous release.

YES, the fonts are still difficult to read.  I'm using a 34 inch HP monitor at 2560x1440 enlarged to 125% with 50% brightness and 85% contrast.

After viewing your samples, I feel compelled to address some of the factors that help readability.  High contrast is one of the greatest factors, a good example is the doctors eye chart used to evaluate your vision; it's hard to beat simple black and white.  With font size, of course, bigger is better however, font type plays a factor when letters get smaller; fonts with serifs help define the letters.  A common belief is that if you embolden a font it automatically becomes more readable however, this is not necessarily true; the white spaces also become smaller making small letters less discernible.  A good recipe to make something difficult to read is reduce the contrast (maybe a gray font on white) and use a bold, small, sans-serif font, which happens to be exactly what you're using except that the font is slightly darker gray now.

With regards to the Geometry tab, it appears the you desire to do the very thing that I described as frustrating, I don't want to have to look up a dimension that is labeled with a letter in a table; it simply adds a layer of complexity without perceived value.  As an example, consider the purpose of a graph which is used to convey a host of information in a format that is understandable without having to delve into a database of data.  Why would you want the pictorial representation to convey inadequate data?  I must say I hadn't considered the ISO standards and I can see that you have a purpose that was outside my purview.  In light of that, my suggestion is to make the dimensions editable in both the table and drawing.  I've attached a revised version of your document for review.

The slowness I experienced was when checking and expanding tool sets.  I will explore it more and create a screencast.

Thank you for you're attentiveness and prompt responses.

[MyersMade]

Custom fields would definitely be plus. 👍

[mcd540]

Thanks Christopher, I'll look forward to further refinements and evaluate them with an open mind. I'm glad that you guys are responsive and open minded.  And for the people involved in working on this, please take my comments as meaning to be helpful, sometimes I might come across as being to critical.

[nick_p3dcreations]

I found the culprits. The two tools causing errors were a 1/2" roughing endmill (which shouldn't be anything nonstandard) and a 45deg undercutting tool (that doesn't surprise me since it was a bit of a hack on it's own).
I uploaded the files here in case they happen to be helpful for troubleshooting.

[MatthewPBryant]

@gtprototype 

Honestly I didn't have a clue that the tool library fonts had gotten darker from the previous release

---

Please bear in mind that whilst the team has already made some changes to make the fonts clearer, these changes have not been released in Fusion 360, so you won't be seeing them yet. You should see them soon, though! 

With regards to the Geometry tab, it appears the you desire to do the very thing that I described as frustrating, I don't want to have to look up a dimension that is labeled with a letter in a table; it simply adds a layer of complexity without perceived value.  As an example, consider the purpose of a graph which is used to convey a host of information in a format that is understandable without having to delve into a database of data.  Why would you want the pictorial representation to convey inadequate data?  I must say I hadn't considered the ISO standards and I can see that you have a purpose that was outside my purview.  In light of that, my suggestion is to make the dimensions editable in both the table and drawing.  I've attached a revised version of your document for review.

---

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions on this - we'll be sure to take it into account when reviewing the design!

The slowness I experienced was when checking and expanding tool sets.  I will explore it more and create a screencast.

---

That would be really helpful, thanks!

[MatthewPBryant]

@nick_p3dcreations, 

Thanks for sharing those tools with us. The roughing end mill seems to be a valid tool and should load in the new tool library, are you sure that tool is not loading correctly?

It looks like you might have exported this data from the new tool library? Because the new tool library couldn't load the undercutting tool it hasn't exported the tool. You can find the original tool data in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\CAM360\libraries\Local . From there, you should be able to see a .json named after your tool library. If you share that, I should be able to see the invalid tool and work out what the problem is.

Thanks,