Turning CAM Custom Profile Pass Angle

euclidmandd · ‎10-17-2019

Before the latest update, I was able to specify a custom angle for pass direction in the turning profile operation for roughing out a part. The picture is a part I programmed about 6 months ago using an angled pass direction. This is sometimes useful for a deep bore where getting the chips out is a challenge. Cutting at an angle gives more clearance for the tool shank and makes things run more smoothly. It's also handy on OD profiling once in a while for a long slender part to help keep more rigidity during roughing. It seems like after the overhaul of the turning cam, that's not an option anymore. I'm just seeing horizontal, vertical, and back cutting. Am I missing something? Is that an option we might get back at some point?

akash.kamoolkar · ‎10-17-2019

@euclidmandd

We basically built the new strategies from the ground up to initially be bare bones essential functionality, then add additional parameters as needed. The objective was to simplify the interface and workflow so new users could feel comfortable using it. Going forward we do plan to add more functionality (eg: angled roughing passes) as we learn more about cases like yours where users would benefit from having this functionality. So towards that end, thank you for your valuable and detailed feedback, it's going to help us a lot to prioritize our future development.

For now, you can use the existing functionality in the legacy profiling strategy by typing cam.f in the text prompt, clicking okay then checking the feature flag option "old-turning-profile-strategy". This will make the legacy strategy reappear in the turning menu.

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar

Akash Kamoolkar
Software Development Manager

euclidmandd · ‎10-17-2019

Hey Akash,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll add in the legacy option and use that for
now. One other feature I'm realizing is missing from the new operation is
the ability to control the lead in. When boring deep holes, getting chips
out is a huge issue because they just pack up around the bar. So sometimes
I like to break the bore up into multiple operations at increasing depths.
The issue is that with the deeper passes the tool doesn't retract from the
part to clear the chips. Before I could set a really long lead in length
to get the tool to retract between passes, but that doesn't work anymore.
That itself was kind of a work-around, so there's probably a better
solution, but it is something that needs to be addressed. I think
eventually it would be awesome to be able to have all those
controls (multiple depths, lead to part front on each pass, custom angles)
all in the operation.

>From reading the forums, I'm sure you've heard a lot of complaints about
the approach Fusion has taken for making these changes, but I would like to
add my voice to the frustration. I don't think it's right to prioritize
simplicity for new users over functionality for commercial users who are
paying full price and using the software on a daily basis for their
income. I can appreciate trying to streamline, but I shouldn't have to
spend an hour on the forums, contact tech support, and enter a text prompt
just to get back what I've always had. I should not be a beta tester and
have to complain to get back the tools I need.

I would suggest in the future that if there's a big structural change like
this and especially if functionality is going to be removed, both
operations should be included standard with the old one labeled "legacy" or
"advanced" etc. I want to emphasize that I'm happy to see changes and
improvements being made, and even happy to try them out and give feedback
if you need more beta testers *before* rolling out new versions. Bottom
line is that when I've got parts that have to get done I need to know that
I'm going to have the tools for the job.

Thanks,
Alex

akash.kamoolkar · ‎10-17-2019

@euclidmandd

To answer your second question, when we released the new strategies we weren't just prioritizing new users over existing users. We do also have existing users who were confused by the existing workflow and user interface, especially parameters that didn't appear to do anything or worked incorrectly and these users had to spend a lot of time experimenting, performing trial and error rituals to finally get the toolpath they wanted. Therefore, we decided to overhaul the existing strategy completely and start afresh with a bare bones interface. Bear in mind, once these strategies are fully functional we intend them to be able to accomplish everything the legacy strategy does and more. Having said that, we do realize that we have power users who have established workflows within the legacy strategy that work for them and looking back, I agree that it was probably a mistake on our part to not publicize the fact that the legacy strategy could still be accessed and / or make it available in the menu by default.

As to the roughing leads, are you referring to being able to control the length of the lead or the angle? It would be helpful if you could attach a sample file so I can see what you are trying to achieve so we can investigate the best workflow to handle this case.

Thanks,

Akash Kamoolkar

Akash Kamoolkar
Software Development Manager

euclidmandd · ‎10-17-2019

I do agree that the new interface is a big improvement and definitely heading in the right direction... I just miss some old functions.

Anyway, here's the part I'm working on. The tool paths of interest are Rough 1-4. The parameters of the operations are identical except that each operation goes incrementally deeper. As you can see, I use the lead in length to get the tool to retract all the way out of the part between each pass. Otherwise the chips get hopelessly built up on the inside. It's still not a perfect solution, but it gets the job done.

So what would be nice is a way to control the depth similar to peck drilling, where you can specify a step down and it just repeats until it hits a final depth. And then some sort of option to fully retract to a given distance after each pass would eliminate the lead in work around.

One other feature that would make things a little better is to allow the use of parameters within CAM like in the design work space. Right now if I want to take a heavier pass for example, I have to change it in every operation which is tedious and can lead to errors. I did figure out a while back to use sketch points to control the depths. If you just do offsets from the part front for example, changing one operation doesn't update the next one, so it can lead to collisions or air cutting. I'm sure there are a lot of other applications for user parameters as well.

I can't attach for some reason, so here's a link.

https://a360.co/2qpp62p

Thanks,

Alex

akash.kamoolkar · ‎10-17-2019

@euclidmandd

Seems like your user requirement is to be able to retract to a point outside the hole (let's say Safe Z) after every rough boring pass, then rapid back in for the next pass. Is this forum post close to what you are requesting? https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-manufacture/new-clearance-nad-finish-allowance-september-u... Because in that case it may be a simple issue of adding a parameter "retract to safe Z after every pass" to the roughing operation. Is there any significance to the lead in being angled or is that just a way for the final pass to not rub against the hole?

As to your other request, you will be happy to know that we are actively working on implementing CAD parameters in CAM although I do not have an ETA of when that will be released.

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar

Akash Kamoolkar
Software Development Manager

euclidmandd · ‎10-17-2019

Yep, that's post exactly what I'm looking for in terms of the retraction. I think leading to safe Z would be sufficient, but there might be situations where specifying something other than safe Z would be handy. I'm not sure what that situation would be, but it's something to keep in mind.

And no, the funny angles on the lead in are not necessary. That's just what happened by default when I set the lead in length really long. However, like you mentioned, it would be important to have the tool retracted away from the outside wall slightly so it's not rubbing the whole way in. I'd imaging the best way to do that would be to still do a standard lead in after the tool has come back from the full retraction. Something like the picture attached.

Great to hear that parameter are coming to CAM.

I would still say that the ability to do multiple axial depths for roughing passes would be a good addition eventually. It would even come in handy on roughing the OD of long slender parts too. In that case, you might want to rough it in sections to maintain as much rigidity in the part as possible. But in my opinion that's more of a luxury item. The pass angle and leading to safe Z are much more important for me.

Thanks,

Alex

akash.kamoolkar · ‎10-17-2019

@euclidmandd

In terms of multiple axial depths, or as we like to call it internally, "segmenting", we are working on an initial conceptual workflow that would allow users to specify a machining limit, then have the option of automatically breaking it into sections to rough and finish or, allow the user to specify the breaking points. This is in highly preliminary stages, so ETA is highly undefined at this point. I believe this would satisfy your requirement.

Regards,

Akash Kamoolkar

Akash Kamoolkar
Software Development Manager

Paul_NextMedicalDesign · ‎12-19-2019

I would like to echo and emphasize Alex's points regarding just dropping the functionality and features that I've been using for a few years now and then all the sudden I need to "stop making my part" and waste "too much time" to figure out that Autodesk made a decision and drop functionality....lead-in lead-out has always been problematic, but it looks like the new profiling strategy limits us to 45 deg lead-in? Really? Going backwards here.....and I am no power-user....I would say this is basic stuff.

I do appreciate the tip to access the legacy turning features....although I cannot figure out what you mean by "typing cam.f in the text prompt, clicking okay then checking the feature flag option "old-turning-profile-strategy" ". Where is this text prompt??