Tool Library

[ktorokU233T]

Not wanting to get into a discussion if it is good or bad, better or worse then the old tool library. My goal is to find answers for, lets call them, short comings. I tried looking through the over 10 pages of posts in the existing thread, but did not see much of anything close.

So far I feel the new tool library is heading down the right path, but when can we expect better integration into the manufacturing environment? For example, on the cutting data tab of the tool library, right clicking does not present some of the same handy selections as in the tool tab of a tool path edit like make default, edit expression and copy parameter name ( especially copy parameter name)  These are sadly missed when in the tool library.

After taking the time in the tool library to setup my cutting data for a tool, why are they not passed into my operation as setup in the tool library. For example, I can spend the time to make my feedrate a function of tool rpm and feed per tooth and number of teeth ( the cutting feedrate will show as a function/formula), but when selected as a tool in a cutting operation, these seem to be lost, and my cutting feedrate is passed in as a "hard" number from the tool library, and feed per tooth is now a function based off of that hard number. Very frustrating when moving jobs from machine to machine with different RPM limits.

I see some of the other annoyances are starting to disappear after the tool library update, and I hope the development is not halted before this actually becomes a very polished and useful tool. Keep up the good work.

[seth.madore]

When setting up cutting parameters, make sure you're storing them in the Presets:

 

[ktorokU233T]

That's the problem, the presets I setup for the tool parameters are lost when you close the tool library, or when brought into the operation after selecting the tool.

Try it out. Set up a new tool or edit an existing tool. Go to the cutting data tab. Make sure you are in the correct preset or even create a new one and name it something. Enter a spindle speed as a hard number, then type in tool_spindleSpeed for the Ramp spindle speed. Now type in a hard number for the Feed per tooth. The fx symbol at the right end disappears from the Feed per tooth entry box and moves to the Cutting feedrate entry box. Good so far, right. Type tool_feedCutting in the entry boxes for Lead-in and Lead-out feedrates. Great, all the entry boxes we made functions of something else show a fx symbol in them.  Hit accept.

Now if you were selecting this tool in an operation, you would expect that all that nice work we did in the tool library would be brought into the operation as the tool parameters, correct. Right click on the feed per tooth entry box in the operations tool tab and select edit expression. Reverted back to "default" calculation of 

tool_feedCutting/(tool_spindleSpeed * tool_numberOfFlutes). OK, not so bad, at least it is the same number we put in. Click cancel in the edit expression window, and change the spindle speed to something lower. Notice the feed per tooth, it just went up. Not my expected behavior after just spending all the time to setup 30 tools based on feed per tooth so this would not happen. Now a simple task of moving a setup to a machine with a slower spindle, or a faster spindle speed, just got more complicated and time consuming. Also notice the lead-in and lead-out feedrates are now hard numbers and do not change with the feedrate either.

While I understand the need for a "default" calculation when you need somewhere to start, since we are allowed to change all these parameters to what we desire, I would have hoped it was what I typed in as a parameter that was saved and presented back to me the next time I went back in the tool library.

[seth.madore]

Ah, I see. Yes, I agree, the FPR should be the driving value and the the FPM. We did discover a similar error in the drilling cycle, I suspect these issues are linked.

[ktorokU233T]

Soooooo, can this be put on the list for checking into, revamping at some time in the  (hopefully near) future. I know there are many things to be done, but this adds a bunch of time to tool maintenance when using the tool library. 

[seth.madore]

Thing is, it's not entirely the tool library team that's involved in this. Some of the issue is happening at the level of toolpath creation, which is a different team altogether. I've created tickets for this issue, hopefully have a solution at some point.

[ktorokU233T]

Thanks.

1 Step at a time. Fix the library so the tool path team gets the right information, then fix the tool path tool tab. At least that's the way which seems logical to me. Unless the tool path team is quicker then the library team, then reverse it 🙂

[engineguy]

@ktorokU233T 

@seth.madore 

For what it`s worth guys it does seem to be working AS EXPECTED, I followed the steps used by @ktorokU233T  and I got the exact same result, the feed per tooth changed to a higher value, this is EXPECTED to me as there is now a slower spindle speed referencing the original cutting feedrate so a higher feed per tooth value would be recalculated, nothing wrong there.

By changing that rpm value Fusion has moved from the original (Default preset ??) to the "Custom" preset so the user is now in full "on the fly, make it up as you go" mode and therefore the referencing is not connected to the original preset, the user is now working with Tools in the Document Library and not the actual Tool Library so to me the best way if a user wants to be able to just switch to a different CNC Machine to complete the operation the the appropriate presets should be created within the Fusion Document Tool Library and yes, they should also be in the Main Tool Library so that when required at a later date for another job all the relevant presets for that tool will be available just by selecting the tool.

I make a point of reselecting a tool when opening an older Document, like automatic updating as I may well have added extra presets/functionality to the tool, if I am happy with what was saved in the Document then I leave it alone 🙂 🙂 🙂

The user knows his/her shop/machinery/tooling etc so will be able to create everything exactly as required in the beginning.

I have seen pretty much exactly the same thing with other CadCAM softwares, setup all the tools with all the options required in the Main Tool Library but trying to make changes "on the fly" doesn`t work well with most software I have come across 🙂

Anyway, that`s it FWIW, not saying anyone is wrong, just that my approach says to me that it works fine, a little screencast of a simple example I use here 🙂 🙂 🙂

Stay Safe

Regards

Rob

[ktorokU233T]

I see your point in the way you explain it. Another expected outcome, and what I was hoping would be the end result, is if I change the default to some other value, including to a function/formula based on other parameters, my change would stick in that input. As it is now, I can change all I want in any input box, only to come back later and find they have reverted back to the underlying defaults. So if I spend the time to input all my tool parameters as I want them, later on when i reselect that tool, they are reverted back to the being calculated by the underlying defaults, not the way I wish them to be calculated. So other then a very nifty temporary calculator built into every input box, what have I really got? Unless I specifically right click and select reset to default, I would not expect it to revert to that.

I work with lots of tools which are under 1/8 dia and well over 6x to 8x diameter in length. Looking up and selecting the parameters and basing them on chip load per tooth and keeping them that way is something that seemed a very helpful tool. I am not really concerned about final IPM, it is what it calculates out to based on RPM, IPT, and number of flutes. Also, most of our larger tools 3/8 dia and up ( never thought I'd call 3/8 dia large) are used in HSM, HEM, chip thinning, or however you wish to call the newer machining methods. Once these are set up, chip load per tooth is very important. We effectively rough machine on a consistent basis using 3mm dia end mills using a full 12mm to 16mm depth. Not catching the fact that my IPT changed when I thought I had it set correctly does not give good results.

Maybe what I was hoping for was not to change the original defaults in the tool setup, but if I do enter something different, be it a hard number, parameter, or formula, that whatever I entered there remained there until I specifically changed it, and all other parameters where calculated as I set them up. That to me would be the more logical path. After all, I changed them for some reason, good or bad. It seems to me if some of the default values are formulas, the underlying workings are there to store formulas. So if it is IPT based on RPM, IPM and number of teeth, or IPM based on IPT, RPM, and number of teeth, it should not matter, that is what the user wanted, that is what the user typed in, that is what should be stored for future use. Once again, there is always the right click, reset to default for the faint of heart, or that occasional what the heck was I thinking moment.

[Ketherton21]

i had this issue with the old library as well, doing the exact same thing I was taught in a class specifically for fusion thru an authorized autodesk vendor (or whatever the exact term is). ive basically just learned to go through everything for every toolpath. seems like the numbers never want to stick, and then if they do they are suddenly on EVERY tool. .08 DOC is fine on a CNMG 432 but not so much a 3/8 boring bar. also 1.5" ramp step downs are kind of extreme. i just reverted to the old library, let everyone else bullet proof it and then ill use it.

a NEW thread would be cool getting everyone on the same page. but that stuff kinda went sideways at about mach 5 before. im not sure if the team is still working as hard as they were before on it with how much negative feedback I seen. a nice walkthrough would be cool. for all i know there is one. ive been trying to make more of an effort to take the extra time to get things way more dialed in. diving into the new tool library is rather intimidating with it having a complete face lift.

edit: I cant even find that other thread.