Creating a new machine: First Run

[rflulling]

Several questions. I know there is an ocean of resources and not to be ADHD but much of it can be extremely overwhelming, some of it just doesn't say enough.

I have built a clone of the machine in Fusion360, one part, one file at a time. Each resulting part was then Assembled sequentially into greater sub assemblies and ultimately into 4 primary Assemblies. This made what came next mostly simple. Teaching fusion360 which Assembly represented a component of an axis and how far they needed to move. I have also loaded my various bits into Fusion360, but the chuck and collet function doesn't seem to be something one can add.

Problems to over come:

1. Error: The source asset FusionAssetName in document configuration v3 has not referenced the target asset Fu...
   
   1. Really? How many corporate users get this issue and are like, this is no issue. Lets just go start over and rebuild our machine, since manufacturing component cant handle text in the sketch, or tangent relationships.
   2. I know I am using the included functions, not the 1600 a year add on. Not that there is any logical reason I would spend 1600 a year for this since I am not a corporation... but that such a small issue can make the whole thing worthless. Id be pretty angry to have dropped 1600 and now have to direct a team to rebuild the machine just so we can move forward.
   3. As long as this bug exists I cannot even save a functional machine configuration file.
      1. I wondered why work I had already done was missing. Opps Fusion had another error and just can't... I get a lot of these error for all kinds of stuff.
      2. This is a critical SHOW STOPPER
      3. Yes, I edited the 1 part that had text, made a copy. Erased the sketches from the copy. Updated every associated assembly. Still the error persists. I am clueless to where Tangent Relationships were used, so I have to assume the entire assembly.
   4. I found a work around to this show stopper:
      1. Break Link to this and all sub assemblies.
         1. I really should not need to point out why this a work around and not a fix.
         2. I will have to manually update changes rather than depend on the associations.
      2. The error wording gives a clue that is not refereed to on the help page.
         
         1. Fusion360 does not have permissions edit compound documents.
            1. That is any time there are sub assemblies, fusion needs permission from the user to edit those assemblies. It will not ask to do so on its own and even when it has permission what can be edited in place is today more limited than it used to be.
            2. What this means to the user is that when using Machine Builder, it tries to make a change to the assemblies that cannot be saved due to the issue of the permissions. So the save fails.
               
               
2. There are motion functions that still do not work and I have yet to learn how to use.
   1. XYZ the axis move as intended within Manufacturer Machine Builder and reset to Edge Zero positions.
   2. I don't think any of the parts that do not move matter for the Manufacturing section, but it would be nice to have the machine fully virtualized. It's otherwise just a nice model.
      
      
3. Post processor development is a nightmare reserved for advanced developers.
   1. There is no simple way to get one running then add functions. There is no basic roadmap, instead the training document is a one page. encyclopedia.
   2. I considered looking into asking for help as recommended, but that resulted in a Linked-In like venture into corporate connections offering corporate services.
   3. There was no simple way to just request post processor, no way to offer a bounty for one, no one offering s service with a listed value for their work.
   4. I looked to compare post processors directly. I looked inside them to see how they worked, learn how they worked and compare notes with the write up.
      1. For FDM controllers the basics already exist in a RepRap post processor, and it looks functional enough to get any marlin user running as well. Though some advanced functionality may be ignored.
      2. For CNC that use a RepRap or Marlin based controller, blank slate. Only GRBL exists and these are NOT the SAME.
      3. I also looked to see who wrote the various CPS files I am using as reference material.
         1. Reprap.org: FDM
         2. AutoDesk.com: Generic
         3. HSMworks.com: AutoDesk CNC specific: Error 503.
            
            
4. Connectivity:
   1. Currently the only ways listed to connect are useless to pretty much any one not using industrial hardware.
   2. I am not clear what the communication looks like for NIC, most of us, use a serial prompt over USB.
   3. Machines I work with in funny unrelated industries also use Serial over USB, or serial direct.
      1. I see no option all all to even kinda make a connection this way.
   4. This means any one who is part of the target audience using 3D printers or any related hardware has ONLY one option. Export G-CODE fuse in External controller.
   5. Fortunately, I never expected to use Fusion360 to run my machines and have already sponsored an open source developer into fixing their code to work correctly with my machine.

By the way. I tried to make the bullet points nice and neat. Each subset with it's own unique from the parent or subset. But upon saving. Error... "Your post has been changed because invalid HTML was found in the message body. The invalid HTML has been removed. Please review the message and submit the message when you are satisfied."

-What happened was that the server decided that all bullet points regardless of the parent or child should be the exact same label system. Because why not make it painfully confusing, right?

[seth.madore]

I'm trying to understand what exact issues you're running into and what it is you're trying to accomplish 🤔

[rflulling]

1. There is a bug. I found a work around. But it is still a bug. Having to break the links, just to save is a problem.
   
   
2. Still cannot seem to figure out how to dedicate the model of the machine to the machine profile. Working around this. Machine profile saved without issue. Added thumbnail of machine to profile... Profile is completed, but there is no way observed to link a fully configured machine. Thus I need  a template file to use any time I want to make a part, rather than simply referencing the machine in a new file.
   
   
3. Parts do not move, that should. Minor, but a work in progress. Would like to see full motion, spindle and axis or belts, if they are installed, move. Mine uses screws. XYZ move, but thats it. My understanding is that I should be able to make everything move that should move, when simulating. Maybe thats part of the 1600/yr package?
   
   
4. Parts do not line up in Sim. The Tool, and the Spindle are never aligned in sim and I dont know why.
   
   1. From Setup Machine model, The part attach point is set to the outer ring of the EC11 collet. Since bits
   2. Preview machine movement does simulate XYZ moment exactly, without any range of motion violation.
   3. I found that Fusion360 was raising the Z axis out of bounds, realized there a holder being saved to each bit that did not exist. The holder I do have the the chuck assembly is not something Fusion360 will let me add, so it remains part of the Machine model. I removed the holder from all of my bits.
   4. With the holder removed fusion does not raise the Z out of bounds during the sim, but does move it out of bounds at the end of the sim.
   5. The bit is always aligned left of center and about an inch down and and inch forward of where it was designated to mount in the Setup Machine Model. This makes no sense.
      
      
5. Everything gets copied. I am going to talk this up to inexperience. The whole machine gets copied and then it sits weirdly offset. So I have to hide the original.
   
   
6. Spoil board doesn't move so I had to add it's model to the machine in order for it to move with the X axis as it should.
   
   
7. POST processors. Who sells the book on this topic? I think the PDF is something like 30 pages.
   1. what I need first, is what information I need to gather about and from the firmware I need a post processor for.  Even if I cannot gather that info myself I can ask those who can.
   2. if you can short cut this for me, I need a Post Processor for Marlin 2.x, it can be configured for pretty much, anything. I would surmise that there need to be 3 post processors. FDM, CNC and LASER. But I am a n00b and I assume there is probably a complicated way to make them all run in one post processor.
   3. No, a post processor for Marlin1.x will not work, less I am running FDM, and I am not.
   4. If i can figure this out I will write them all myself.

[rflulling]

So now for reasons that make even less sense. It's all working. Well the drill holes aren't lining up with the bit. But the motions, the bit to the spindle, and table are all lined. When I left for work the table and the spindle were floating a foot off the build plate for no reason whatsoever. I haven't changed any of the operations or setup. Though Manufacturing was pestering me about some kind of changes that needed to be updated in Design, but design refused to show the update function. I couldn't find anything that COULD be updated. So I saved the file again, since saving it right as I walked out the door. Closed it and reopened it. Now like magic everything works. So either some one stepped in and made some fixes I cannot see, or there is a magic in saving and reopening the file when setting up manufacturing, that makes no sense.

I still do not know why the bits are now matched up correctly with the spindle. But I suspect it was a bug in the holder. The spindle and the Tool line up in sim, only after removed the Holder from each tool. -Useless noise in the code.

Gave up trying to get the part to move with the base while being cut in sim. It would just float while everything else shifted. So like the spoil board, I made the object to be machined into part of the CNC... Now it moves right and looks normal in sim. -Either I just don't get how good all this is or it's far less baked than we are supposed to believe.

For whatever reason the Clearance height tool just couldn't seen to get it right. I mean it's not rocket science to set the bottom of the part as Zero. Its kept creating the Stock below the part inside the spoil board, even though it set to the lower edge of the part. Finally just switched to full manual, forget the default values. ALL Heights are set to stock bottom, so all set to same point. Now the offset is defined from a single common point and nothing else, it works.

Simulate with machine has a option for Stock: Material. I am not sure what effect this has on gcode generation within Fusion360: Manufacturing but that the options are limited to Paint, Plastic, and Glass... This is a bit confusing. I suppose the ONLY point is that this ONLY represents the visual graphics shown during simulation. Turned off this only shows the part being cut. Turned don it shows a virtual stock. The first three options for colorization show the same thing no mater what I select, material option having only a slight effect. The third option seems most useful to a 2D cut, diving the areas by color.

So I guess all thats really left is Post Processor. I have set it to GRBL. Maybe something more generic if I can find it. In absence of a defined post processor, being able to get a full code output without filters, can be useful with a little manual editing and a series of find/replace commands. I a software that costs barely a penny compared to Fusion360 does this with flying colors. Surely, this should be a cinch in Fusion360.

[a.laasW8M6T]

It really sounds like you have the machine incorrectly setup, but seeing as there are so many factors that can affect the setup it is difficult to diagnose from your description.

If you could upload your machine here we can take a look to see what is going on.

select the export machine option from the machine library:

[rflulling]

Love the instability in the software. The bigger a file is the more likely it is to become unstable and crash. Sometimes it crashes with prompt. Usually, its just gone. No error. Just gone. Happens a lot while Fusion is trying to hide the model which I am trying to set up after making changes to the model. While I am trying to get Fusion360 to stop making the head, cut area, or stock not float, or make copies of the machine. Aside from not being intuitive, despite instructions that really do seem to make sense, I spend a lot of time fighting this. Then the program crashes, rather than just do what I clicks on screen. I mean talk about a fragile ego.

[rflulling]

@a.laasW8M6T Not quite ready to upload a COPY of anything other than set up data, or output code just yet. Given this is a PUBLIC forum. It's legal tantamount to just giving away everything. However I think that it is inevitable given the crashes and other bad behavior I am dealing with.

However, thank you for pointing out what I had forgotten. There is a generic 3 Axis profile. I hope that is is as generic as they come. So the output is mostly unmolested. Should make a Find and replace pretty easy. Nice thing about my firmware, leveling isn't a product of the gcode, it's handled entirely by the firmware. Unlike many that need to edit the code before they can begin.

EDIT: There is no Generic 3 Axis post processor. Only 2 axis. Even the one in the screen shot says, no post processor. But a generic unmolested 3 axis post processor is what i want. Perhaps I should simply abandon the post processor. Perhaps that is the way.

[rflulling]

Turns out that those of us who use Marlin may not need much editing to the code. POST may only need to act as a filter. So far there are only a few commands that it did not recognize and I am going to get them noted pretty fast. Faster if if I was running a machine learning tool.

Turns out that some one did write a post processor for a slightly older version of Marlin. It's not perfect but it does work. I maybe able to learn from his example and create a slightly better Post Processor.

Also there is junk that isn't even code, just notes that aren't commented out. I would think this would be Gcode 101, don't put anything in there that isn't meant to be read as code and if you do, comment it out! But I guess developers know better than the rest of us and don't think twice about just doing whatever. I am not sure how to script for "notes." I think I saw a click box to turn this on and off, some place. If there isn't, there needs to be!

Got tired of to many issues with parts not lining up and other weird settings that were hung up even after whatever I was working with was erased. Then machine setup kept throwing that absurd error listed way may on bullet point Number one. The actual BUG in Manufacturing. I mean here I have a clean file and I haven't even attached hardware to a new profile and its throwing this error. I cannot erase the last document i created, Fusion says its been referred too. But in flying colors, can't or wont say what it was refereed to by. So i can only mark it as trash or corrupted, and bury in a folder out of the way.

Created a while new clean file. Lets start over with this process from scratch. Only the machine assembly is old. Saved the file. Dragged the assembly onto the file and waited for the machine to pop up. Instead got an error I associate with a corruption within auto cad. Says the zip file is invalid. Cannot open the machine. Games me a big red screen with lots of errors.

Tried to open the machine file. Fusion died. Of course. Why am I not surprised. And this is is why 1600 for an addon is Bonkers. I already drop 550 a year. Not handing out more still these issues are resolved.

[rflulling]

Ahh, I see why it was crashing and the zip files wouldn't open. It quietly updated in the background, but didn't say. The update obviously compromised functions that were active. Thanks guys. I need the fixes. But hey, it helps to know you are going to do this. Then I am more irritated and less blaming you for incompetence. -Now there is a survey window open and right after a crash caused by an update? This is like asking an volcano if it causes fires.

[rflulling]

After Fusion stopped crashing and refusing to open documents due to silent background updates, then a survey... and one last application restart...

Rebuilt the entire file for making my cuts.

Unlinked the Marlin post file and reverted to a GRBL. It's not nearly as advanced as what Marlin can do but it's generic enough to work. Marlin is supposed to be able to handle notes in parenthesis, and it's enabled in my firmware but the notes included cause the gcode to hang on program start. So gotta dump them. Along with the M0 that both post files insist on including. I am running headless. That is the PC controls the whole thing, no extra display. I cannot have an MO as the machine expects a command from the display to continue. So that gets dumped too.

With that out of the way the gcode works.

What remains are issues in the various configuration files insisting that the bits are too long or the speeds are wrong. Even when they pulled the data directly from the configurations I provided for the machine or the bits. I find it bonkers that it says to long or to fast for the machine when no such limits were ever configured. So yes Fusion360 you can ignore these flags.

The last and final issue I think.

Even in this clean rebuilt file, where my machine is fully rebuilt, links are fully broken and the file saves just fine on command. If the window is left open, Fusion continues to complain it cannot back up the data. This only happens in Manufacturing.

I don't expect any communication from Autodesk on this topic. This I think has become more of a blog to be found by other just starting out and perhaps not backed by endless supplies of cash to just throw at the wall. If Autodesk does take the time to look over my experience and notes. I hope that it is useful in making improvements. Particularly to user interface and stability.